Conrad Murray Mum On Whether Michael Jackson Was A Pedophile

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Offline Thriller4ever

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CONRAD MURRAY
MUM ON WHETHER
MICHAEL JACKSON
WAS A PEDOPHILE


---VIDEO----

Conrad Murray has been blabbing his big mouth all over the place, claiming Michael Jackson killed himself, he used to hold the singer's penis .... but he then clams up in a big way on the subject of pedophilia.

"60 Minutes" Australia interviewed the felonious doc about lots of things, but you gotta watch Murray as he's asked whether he thinks Michael was a pedophile.

The way it looks to us ... he might as well scream, "YES!"   Sometimes body language is more revealing than words.

Read more: http://www.tmz.com/2013/11/25/conrad-murray-michael-jackson-pedophile-interview/#ixzz2lfVYd0Rs

« Last Edit: November 25, 2013, 09:48:54 AM by Thriller4ever »
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Offline gwynned

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I swear things NEVER go as I would expect.  I would have expected an effort to clear his name, assuming Michael is behind CM.  But instead he raises the spectre again!  Always stirring the pot.  But what of the irony of soliciting the opinion of a negligent and possibly deliberately murderous individual about the personal life of someone of Michael's stature.  They are asking Michael's murderer to confirm or deny Michael's innocence!  We've come to expect and accept the most absurd of stories and not bat an eyelash.  Seems to me Michael is practically BEGGING people to wake up and smell the bullshit!

Offline sweetsunsetwithMJ

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I swear things NEVER go as I would expect.  I would have expected an effort to clear his name, assuming Michael is behind CM.  But instead he raises the spectre again!  Always stirring the pot.  But what of the irony of soliciting the opinion of a negligent and possibly deliberately murderous individual about the personal life of someone of Michael's stature.  They are asking Michael's murderer to confirm or deny Michael's innocence!  We've come to expect and accept the most absurd of stories and not bat an eyelash.  Seems to me Michael is practically BEGGING people to wake up and smell the bullshit!

 :th_bravo:
I WANNA BE WHERE YOU ARE!!

Offline VeryLittleSusie

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I read somewhere that Murray said  that there were some terrible things done to MJ (in his childhood). Do you remember we once discussed some terrible things that might have happened between the J5 and some top dogs of the music industry?  That was long ago... Or maybe Murray talks of the violence of MJ's father...
Don't know what to think of that..
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Offline blankie

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I swear things NEVER go as I would expect.  I would have expected an effort to clear his name, assuming Michael is behind CM.  But instead he raises the spectre again!  Always stirring the pot.  But what of the irony of soliciting the opinion of a negligent and possibly deliberately murderous individual about the personal life of someone of Michael's stature.  They are asking Michael's murderer to confirm or deny Michael's innocence!  We've come to expect and accept the most absurd of stories and not bat an eyelash.  Seems to me Michael is practically BEGGING people to wake up and smell the bullshit!

 :th_bravo:

Agree  :th_bravo:
LOVE YOU MORE

Offline cassi

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i have no lie to tell, my mother is 4 days older than michael so i grew up being a fan, and she told me many times when i was young that michael was sexually abused. something about 2 women were forced on him when he was very young. remember the interview with basher when michael said "people always say that the abused, abuse but that's not true" i think he was talking about the physical, sexual, and emotional abuse he received. I just watched the Childhood video yesterday, which he says is the most autobiographical, he asked have you seen my childhood because it was stolen from him. and the way he said the painful youth i had was more than just ass whoopings from Joe. i feel it in my spirit that Michael was sexually tortured (God I pray im wrong)

Offline Australian MJ BeLIEver

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Seems to me Michael is practically BEGGING people to wake up and smell the bullshit!

Had the EXACT same thought when I was watching. BEGGING for ppl to see it. People still don't see it even though it is practically being spelled out to them.


Side Note: One thing I have learned in all of this is that in every negative there is a positive. Ok so the Doco on the surface seems negative for hoax. However how much harder will the message hit home about not believing what we see, hear and watch when MJ will be able to recount not one but SEVERAL instances where hoax and lies were practically being spelled out to the media, journos, extended public but they refused to digest it because their opinion and beliefs had already been dictated to them by the media.

THIS is the positive in all of this. Every time it’s spelled out and as Gwynned says MJ practically begging the audience to see the hoax and it doesn't happen, this only adds more weight to the lesson when it is revealed.
EDIT: We need to stop looking at the negatives from a one dimensional superficial level. All this 'stuff' runs deeper than the story.

How ridiculous do the stories need to get until people THINK for themselves??

-Janet with Gun to KJs head
-Paris suicide attempt
-Katherine suing for a gazillion dollars
-Jermaine 5 year plan
-JACKOlanterns
-Enough propofol to kill an elephant
-Conrad he speaks to me, I love him, I held his penis...
-Monkey suits, in and out burger, etc.

Think about it... It’s almost an experiment. And I am afraid if this story made you cringe, buckle up because maybe its only going to get worse and maybe that is the point. Maybe it is NOT YET time to vindicate Michael and 'clear his name' like we so desperately want for him out of genuine love. Maybe we need to get prepared for worse stories than CM holding MJ's penis. Perhaps it'll get "More grotesque before your eyes" until people start actually making up their own beliefs about Michael instead of being TOLD what to believe...


Maybe things don't happen in the order we imagine re: the justice. However if the lesson of not trusting the media, not believing anything we see hear or read is taken and people start to have their eyes opened to what is going on, then without a doubt the only natural by-product and natural order of things, is that MJ will get his vindication / justice because the world will be forced to QUESTION EVERYTHING that they have been told ABOUT EVERYTHING – and yes, I am going there: fed reserve, 911, moon, JFK, Elvis, Music Industry and our beloved MJ amongst other things.

First... this is not over. First, he needs to continue this way, because the harder people fall, the more deep they will appreciate the lesson. This will be a stark slap in the face a coming of age for mankind, a global awakening. Not just about MJ. About everything we are fed.

So expect the Ludacris stories to continue and expect them to get worse.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2013, 08:04:43 PM by Australian MJ BeLIEver »
People laugh when I explain. And though they may laugh, that doesn't change the fact that it's still the truth.


Michael is Alive
The end of evil is nigh
Trust in God
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Offline gwynned

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Aussie, I think you may be right on the mark.  The laughs have just begun!!!  I don't know how he's gonna top the penis story, but I believe in Michael's ability to find a new bottom, so to speak.   I may have to take to wearing dark pants as well if the laughter gets too explosive.   ;D

Offline marumjj

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I think Debbie Rowe, now buy a bullet, for some crazy fan, murder to Murray.

http://www.tmz.com/2013/11/25/debbie-rowe-conrad-murray-dead-bullet-murder-interview-hollow-point/     :WTF:

Offline Do

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Seems to me Michael is practically BEGGING people to wake up and smell the bullshit!

Had the EXACT same thought when I was watching. BEGGING for ppl to see it. People still don't see it even though it is practically being spelled out to them.
----------------------------------------------
So expect the Ludacris stories to continue and expect them to get worse.

I'm sorry, but that's how you guys think people will notice 'the bullshit' being fed by the media? By planting crazy stories (or let someone else plant those crap stories for you) and expect people to believe those stories are bullshit? I don't know if it works that way. Sure, people who are really involved with 'the hoax' or read ALL the 'news' on gossip sites like TMZ might notice. But the majority of the world don't read these sites and it's not on the major news stations in other countries either. Those people won't notice the ever culminating crazy stuff. And, btw, IF they catch SOME of these articles, it will be only a confirmation about what they thought about Michael already. Those story's don't need to get worse to make the majority believe. The majority just simply don't care because they don't have the feelings for Michael we have. This is not the way to get attention and to make people see. If you want to make people see that they are being lied to, then you have to reveal real information like Edward Snowden did. That's something serious and the world certainly pays attention to THAT. NOT to those derogatory crap stories. So no, I don't believe Michael is begging people to see. I believe it's out of his hands.

"Three passions, simple but overwhelmingly strong, have governed my life: the longing for love, the search for knowledge, and unbearable pity for the suffering of mankind."
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Offline Australian MJ BeLIEver

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Seems to me Michael is practically BEGGING people to wake up and smell the bullshit!

Had the EXACT same thought when I was watching. BEGGING for ppl to see it. People still don't see it even though it is practically being spelled out to them.
----------------------------------------------
So expect the Ludacris stories to continue and expect them to get worse.

I'm sorry, but that's how you guys think people will notice 'the bullshit' being fed by the media? By planting crazy stories (or let someone else plant those crap stories for you) and expect people to believe those stories are bullshit? I don't know if it works that way. Sure, people who are really involved with 'the hoax' or read ALL the 'news' on gossip sites like TMZ might notice. But the majority of the world don't read these sites and it's not on the major news stations in other countries either. Those people won't notice the ever culminating crazy stuff. And, btw, IF they catch SOME of these articles, it will be only a confirmation about what they thought about Michael already. Those story's don't need to get worse to make the majority believe. The majority just simply don't care because they don't have the feelings for Michael we have. This is not the way to get attention and to make people see. If you want to make people see that they are being lied to, then you have to reveal real information like Edward Snowden did. That's something serious and the world certainly pays attention to THAT. NOT to those derogatory crap stories. So no, I don't believe Michael is begging people to see. I believe it's out of his hands.

This is his hoax. He is the driver. When you think about it, much in fact most if not all - of the 'controversy and crazy' has come from camp MJ (family/CM/friends) meaning it "IS" in his hands.

NO, I don't believe that "crazy smack talk" is supposed to make people see the light bulb regarding the media and be able to see that it's all BS and a hoax. I believe that the "reveal" it's self is what will make people wake up. In the meantime, as suggested (again only my personal opinion and admittedly, I could be wrong) this is more like an experiment and lesson to demonstrate how crazy the stories will get and people STILL don't look for the truth themselves. It's a LESSON and it shows what people will listen to and what makes news - when in reality the media and tabloids just release lie after lie about lots of different things and we are gluttons for it.

I honestly believe with all my heart that the "reveal" is what will make people see the big picture and learn the lesson. And that these 'frequent' and 'increasingly' bizzare and horrible stories will add weight to the lesson when it is revealed.


YES you are right. MJ is being painted in the worst possible light. SO is his family. So what happens when he returns healthy, ALIVE, in control and fit as a fiddle??

MJ being a Drug addict is cleared up
MJ being dead is cleared up
CM is vindicated
Paris suicide attempt is undone
Infighting in Jackson family is cleared up
CM holding Michael's penis is cleared up among other crazy stories
MJ injecting himself with a lethal dose of Propofol is cleared up

And then only naturally other "misconceptions" about Michael which have been reported over the years also get covered up. With the biggest one being chi-mo allegations.

Again, I could be way off track. But it's the only logical reason behind such stories. The other alternative is that he is not in control and to me that is *not* an option.

It's either only one of three possibilities. a) Some of the others (I think Souza) suggested it in the other thread it is for comedy/laughs from MJ  (correct me if I am wrong Souza) b) the situation that I posed above that this is almost an experiment in this for learning purposes at reveal. or c) what you are posing, that MJ isn't in control. Which infers that Murray is making this up and that he is not on MJ's side or that TMZ are making it up - which I don't believe. And if he isn't in control then many other aspects of the hoax should be viewed like that, which is impossible because much of it comes from his camp.


Nope, there has to be a purpose to this. There are no coincidences and this is part of the script. But because it is so *grotesque* to us, we can't see it that way. We don't want to.

Michael was behind much/most of the controversy is his life when it came to feeding the media for the past 30 years. His family admit this. (LMP, Jermaine, Latoya, Janet) This has not changed post "death"


Again, just my opinion and even having said that, I understand how it's hard for some to read or watch when CM didn't defend MJ on 60 minutes about the allegations. I respect your opinion and understand why some people say that the stories are "derogatory crap" - however, I personally did not bat and eyelid, (just like the Paris suicide attempt) because somehow, all of these loose threads have to tie up together at the end of this thing to reveal the full tapestry, the full picture and the complete story.


 :smiley_abuv:




« Last Edit: November 26, 2013, 11:20:58 PM by Australian MJ BeLIEver »
People laugh when I explain. And though they may laugh, that doesn't change the fact that it's still the truth.


Michael is Alive
The end of evil is nigh
Trust in God
The righteous will prevail

Offline Starchild

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Seems to me Michael is practically BEGGING people to wake up and smell the bullshit!

Had the EXACT same thought when I was watching. BEGGING for ppl to see it. People still don't see it even though it is practically being spelled out to them.
----------------------------------------------
So expect the Ludacris stories to continue and expect them to get worse.

I'm sorry, but that's how you guys think people will notice 'the bullshit' being fed by the media? By planting crazy stories (or let someone else plant those crap stories for you) and expect people to believe those stories are bullshit? I don't know if it works that way. Sure, people who are really involved with 'the hoax' or read ALL the 'news' on gossip sites like TMZ might notice. But the majority of the world don't read these sites and it's not on the major news stations in other countries either. Those people won't notice the ever culminating crazy stuff. And, btw, IF they catch SOME of these articles, it will be only a confirmation about what they thought about Michael already. Those story's don't need to get worse to make the majority believe. The majority just simply don't care because they don't have the feelings for Michael we have. This is not the way to get attention and to make people see. If you want to make people see that they are being lied to, then you have to reveal real information like Edward Snowden did. That's something serious and the world certainly pays attention to THAT. NOT to those derogatory crap stories. So no, I don't believe Michael is begging people to see. I believe it's out of his hands.

Agree with you, Do. Actually reminds me of the once-upon-a-time rumors of Michael supposedly intending to allow his 02 concerts to be a platform for warning the world about NWO efforts. Certainly provides motive for attempts on MJ’s life, consequent motive for MJ to hoax his death, and strong motive for the TPTB to now attempt to use CM to discredit MJ in the event of a BAM. Conspiracy on a grand level indeed. Hope it’s nothing of that nature, though.                   

(@Australian MJ BeLIEver, you could be right as well. As always, until we’re provided with irrefutable evidence, it really is anybody’s best guess.)
It's all for L.O.V.E.

Offline Australian MJ BeLIEver

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(@Australian MJ BeLIEver, you could be right as well. As always, until we’re provided with irrefutable evidence, it really is anybody’s best guess.)[/color]


Admittedly, I could be waaaaaaaaaaaaay off. Yes - You are right. All of us can only guess.


 :smiley_abuv: to all here and each of your opinions.


I'm only banging on about this one so much because I still believe that he is behind everything. If I start thinking he is not in control about a particular thing, then I could easily start using that reasoning about other stuff in the hoax and then I get into a "hoax within a hoax" territory and that doesn't add up for me.


“Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth.” - Arthur Conan Doyle Snr.



For me, it is 'impossible' that Conrad is "SO camp MJ" all of this time during hoax, and then says the "Penis stuff" as well as being unclear that "MJ was NOT a chi-mo" So if this 'impossible' is eliminated - then I feel that 'only' MJ can be behind it - like everything else he has been behind with CM and hoax since day dot - even though it is 'improbable' because the content is typically unsavory.

Coupled with that, MJ has never recoiled from being unsavory in the past.


Wishful thinking? Dunno. Hope not!


But again huge :smiley_abuv: to you all


EDITED POST
« Last Edit: November 27, 2013, 04:19:04 AM by Australian MJ BeLIEver »
People laugh when I explain. And though they may laugh, that doesn't change the fact that it's still the truth.


Michael is Alive
The end of evil is nigh
Trust in God
The righteous will prevail

Offline Australian MJ BeLIEver

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Hope this post it not OT - Admin remove if so - Just thought as we are 'investigators' it is fitting.  :icon_mrgreen:


Love this article

A Sherlock Holmes Logical Fallacy
By Steven Novella, on September 7th, 2008

We recently received the following question:

‘If you’ve eliminated all other possibilities whatever remains must be the truth,’ is the famous a quote from the brilliant, but fictional, detective Sherlock Holmes. It seems to be an inescapable statement of cold, hard logic but it is often used in movies or on TV as a fig leaf to cover a huge leap of logic on the part of the hero or as justification for why the answer to the mystery at hand must be ghosts, aliens or some other supernatural phenomena. Is the statement a logic fallacy, a practical impossibility or a viable method of investigation that is being misused?

Thanks for a consistently great show.

Stuart

Gothenburg, Sweden




Thanks for the great question, Stuart. Like many points of logic there are many subtleties that need to be understood before they can be applied properly.

The actual quote  is this:

“Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth.”



As stated this is an obvious point of logic – the truth must lie within the set of the possible, which is defined as everything that is not impossible. But Holmes (by which I me Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, the author of Sherlock Holmes) meant the statement as a practical rule of thumb. As an investigator you create a mental list of all potential explanations for a situation. You then systematically eliminate those explanations that you can demonstrate are impossible, either through logic or empirical evidence. Whatever you are left with is the solution – even if it may seem extremely improbable.


Holmes, the hyper-rationalist, was a genius at just this type of endeavor. He could make the connections necessary to eliminate possibilities. He also had the imagination to consider possible solutions that may at first seem entirely improbable – but if that is what you are left with then it must be true.


But Sherlock Holmes was working within a specific framework – a materialist, rational, scientific view of the world. Within that framework this process of elimination works well. In fact, I took a course on Sherlock Holmes in medical school, applying his investigative principles to medical diagnosis, which is a type of investigation.

For example, physicians will make a list of possible diagnoses – called a differential diagnosis. We then systematically eliminate possibilities until we are left with one diangosis that fits all the signs, symptoms, and laboratory results. Whatever remains must be the proper diagnosis, even if it is a rare disease or a very rare manifestation of a more common disease.

In practice this process does not always work because our knowledge is incomplete. Also, this process is often trumped by a more important clinical principle – risk vs benefit. Often the risk of doing diagnostic procedures to establish a specific diagnosis is not justified by a corresponding benefit (it won’t lead to a treatment), or sometime the pathway of maximal benefit vs risk involves giving a low-risk treatment to see if it works.

As an aside, the TV character House is a very Sherlock Holmes type character applied to medical diagnosis. The character is portrayed as a complete egotistical ass, partly because he pursues diagnosis even at the expense of other clinical and ethical principles, such as risk vs benefit or informed consent.

Getting back to Stuart’s question – problems arise when this very logical principle of investigation are applied without constraints. The logic breaks down in a world where one allows for the existence of magic. How, then, does one define possible vs impossible? Holmes clearly assumes magic does not exist, and Doyle places him in a world (the real world) where magic in fact does not exist. Therefore Holmes (very much unlike Scully from The X-files, who lives in a paranormal world) is never “baffled” when his rational explanations do not fit an irrational world he refuses to accept.

There is also a very practical consideration in applying this principle – how complete is your set of alternate explanations?  As I tell my students, if you fail to consider the proper diagnosis you will never make it (this is actualy only true for some diagnoses, for others may be made by doing screening tests, even if you are not looking specifically for the diagnosis you find), or if you prematurely limit the range of possible diagnoses you have no chance of finding the right diagnosis.

The abuses of this principle that Stuart refers to generally combine the above two failings – including “magical” explanations in the set of the possible, and failing to consider all possible explanations. Let’s take a very common example – the sighting of a UFO. Proponents of the ET hypothesis aften argue that the UFO could not be a plane, a balloon, a cloud, or the planet Venus, therefore it must be an ET craft.

The first problem with such arguments is that the list of possible explanations is too short. It should also consider more and even rare but mundane explanations, such as a satellite re-entry, an experimental aircraft, a hoax, or an optical illusion.


The logic also breaks down in concluding that the UFO (by which I simply mean a flying object that is truly unidentified) must be an ET craft, because that is all that remains. In addition to not being “all” that remains, it should not even be included in the list of known possibilities. The error here is including unknown or new phenomena on the list of the possible, which should only include established phenomena.
 
This is necessary because the list of possible new phenomena is theoretically infinite. Why favor ET craft often time-traveling psychic bigfeet? Or fairies from another dimension? Or a previously hidden race of inteligent dinosaurs who survived the extinction 65 million years ago. Or the act of a mischevious deity. Favoring one unknown explanation over another based solely on the absence of an established explanation is a logical fallacy we call the argument from ignorance.

So Sherlock Holmes’ principle needs to be clarified, in a way that was simply assumed by Holmes:

Within the set of known phenomena, once you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be true. If the entire set of known phenomena are eliminated as impossible, then the solution is simply uknown until a new phenomena that can serve as a solution is positively established.


That is a bit more cumbersome than Doyle’s poetic phrasing, but it is more complete. So before we can conclude that the earth is being visited by ET craft, we must completely eliminate all possible explanations (even the quirky and improbable ones) and then find evidence that points specifically to ET craft, rather than just assume that “unknown” means extraterrestrial.



http://theness.com/roguesgallery/index.php/logicphilosophy/a-sherlock-holmes-logical-fallacy/
« Last Edit: November 26, 2013, 10:39:54 PM by Australian MJ BeLIEver »
People laugh when I explain. And though they may laugh, that doesn't change the fact that it's still the truth.


Michael is Alive
The end of evil is nigh
Trust in God
The righteous will prevail

Offline Do

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Seems to me Michael is practically BEGGING people to wake up and smell the bullshit!

Had the EXACT same thought when I was watching. BEGGING for ppl to see it. People still don't see it even though it is practically being spelled out to them.
----------------------------------------------
So expect the Ludacris stories to continue and expect them to get worse.

I'm sorry, but that's how you guys think people will notice 'the bullshit' being fed by the media? By planting crazy stories (or let someone else plant those crap stories for you) and expect people to believe those stories are bullshit? I don't know if it works that way. Sure, people who are really involved with 'the hoax' or read ALL the 'news' on gossip sites like TMZ might notice. But the majority of the world don't read these sites and it's not on the major news stations in other countries either. Those people won't notice the ever culminating crazy stuff. And, btw, IF they catch SOME of these articles, it will be only a confirmation about what they thought about Michael already. Those story's don't need to get worse to make the majority believe. The majority just simply don't care because they don't have the feelings for Michael we have. This is not the way to get attention and to make people see. If you want to make people see that they are being lied to, then you have to reveal real information like Edward Snowden did. That's something serious and the world certainly pays attention to THAT. NOT to those derogatory crap stories. So no, I don't believe Michael is begging people to see. I believe it's out of his hands.

This is his hoax. He is the driver. When you think about it, much in fact most if not all - of the 'controversy and crazy' has come from camp MJ (family/CM/friends) meaning it "IS" in his hands.

NO, I don't believe that "crazy smack talk" is supposed to make people see the light bulb regarding the media and be able to see that it's all BS and a hoax. I believe that the "reveal" it's self is what will make people wake up. In the meantime, as suggested (again only my personal opinion and admittedly, I could be wrong) this is more like an experiment and lesson to demonstrate how crazy the stories will get and people STILL don't look for the truth themselves. It's a LESSON and it shows what people will listen to and what makes news - when in reality the media and tabloids just release lie after lie about lots of different things and we are gluttons for it.

I honestly believe with all my heart that the "reveal" is what will make people see the big picture and learn the lesson. And that these 'frequent' and 'increasingly' bizzare and horrible stories will add weight to the lesson when it is revealed.


YES you are right. MJ is being painted in the worst possible light. SO is his family. So what happens when he returns healthy, ALIVE, in control and fit as a fiddle??

MJ being a Drug addict is cleared up
MJ being dead is cleared up
CM is vindicated
Paris suicide attempt is undone
Infighting in Jackson family is cleared up
CM holding Michael's penis is cleared up among other crazy stories
MJ injecting himself with a lethal dose of Propofol is cleared up

And then only naturally other "misconceptions" about Michael which have been reported over the years also get covered up. With the biggest one being chi-mo allegations.

Again, I could be way off track. But it's the only logical reason behind such stories. The other alternative is that he is not in control and to me that is *not* an option.

It's either only one of three possibilities. a) Some of the others (I think Souza) suggested it in the other thread it is for comedy/laughs from MJ  (correct me if I am wrong Souza) b) the situation that I posed above that this is almost an experiment in this for learning purposes at reveal. or c) what you are posing, that MJ isn't in control. Which infers that Murray is making this up and that he is not on MJ's side or that TMZ are making it up - which I don't believe. And if he isn't in control then many other aspects of the hoax should be viewed like that, which is impossible because much of it comes from his camp.


Nope, there has to be a purpose to this. There are no coincidences and this is part of the script. But because it is so *grotesque* to us, we can't see it that way. We don't want to.

Michael was behind much/most of the controversy is his life when it came to feeding the media for the past 30 years. His family admit this. (LMP, Jermaine, Latoya, Janet) This has not changed post "death"


Again, just my opinion and even having said that, I understand how it's hard for some to read or watch when CM didn't defend MJ on 60 minutes about the allegations. I respect your opinion and understand why some people say that the stories are "derogatory crap" - however, I personally did not bat and eyelid, (just like the Paris suicide attempt) because somehow, all of these loose threads have to tie up together at the end of this thing to reveal the full tapestry, the full picture and the complete story.


 :smiley_abuv:

Aussie, let me first apologise to you if I came across too 'bitchy', in my post, that absolutely wasn't my intension, I hugely respect you for your well thought and clear posts and for your friendly personality!

For a long time, I thought about Michael being the driver of his hoax as well, but for me, it simply has taken too long for him to prove his point. How crazy these stories might get, people don't start looking for the truth. What truth? About Michael? Only his supporters are interested in that. And not even all of them, because many fans made it clear that, if it came out that he had faked his death, they would hate him for it.
Truth about being lied to by the media, the government etc? Then he'll has to reveal major, important issues that will trigger people to start looking for what really is happening in the world. Stories about a certain Conrad Murray holding a penis of a drugaddicted former superstar (ofcourse not my opinion!) won't incite people to start looking for truth. Even if he was the greatest man on earth (for us). Other issues are keeping people busy, the crisis, struggling to provide food for their families, they don't even have to time to search for the truth. Once he himself will make his reveal, I don't believe either that people THEN start looking.

You said:

Quote
MJ MJ being a Drug addict is cleared up
That's the question. Because the fact that he is alive, doesn't mean he wasn't on certain types of drugs (ín peoples opinion). Maybe they will think that BECAUSE he was on drugs, he pulled of such a lie to the world.

MJ being dead is cleared up
That's true. But you can't blame the media for reporting michael's death. Because there was a memorial, a funeral, a conviction, tributes etc. etc. So it was not the media that lied, but Michael himself.

CM is vindicated
True, but what about the stories he now fed us, still lies lies lies, all lies, made up by Michael (in peoples opinion)

Paris suicide attempt is undone
When Michael comes back, he can expect a giant backlash because he drove his daughter into a suicide attempt because of his so called hoax. People will view him as a selfish father (in peoples opinion)

Infighting in Jackson family is cleared up
They are and will be viewed as equally crazy

CM holding Michael's penis is cleared up among other crazy stories
Michael tried many times to deny crazy stories, but have planted many of them himself. WHy should people start to believe him now?

MJ injecting himself with a lethal dose of Propofol is cleared up
Undeniable!

Years went by and still many people believe he was a chi-mo. The fact that WR made a claim doesn't help to clear his name either  Many people don't want to see the truth, I believe that is the biggest problem.

You are right, i have a major problem to believe Michael is behind all of these stories. I firmly believe these stories won't help him to clear his name. But ofcourse I respect your opinion as well, and I simply must say I hope you are right. :smiley_abuv:

« Last Edit: November 27, 2013, 06:39:41 AM by Do »

"Three passions, simple but overwhelmingly strong, have governed my life: the longing for love, the search for knowledge, and unbearable pity for the suffering of mankind."
Bertrand Russel

Offline Do

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Agree with you, Do. Actually reminds me of the once-upon-a-time rumors of Michael supposedly intending to allow his 02 concerts to be a platform for warning the world about NWO efforts. Certainly provides motive for attempts on MJ’s life, consequent motive for MJ to hoax his death, and strong motive for the TPTB to now attempt to use CM to discredit MJ in the event of a BAM. Conspiracy on a grand level indeed. Hope it’s nothing of that nature, though.                   

Starchild, this scenario is, unfortunatly, more plausible in my opinion.

"Three passions, simple but overwhelmingly strong, have governed my life: the longing for love, the search for knowledge, and unbearable pity for the suffering of mankind."
Bertrand Russel

Offline Australian MJ BeLIEver

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Aussie, let me first apologise to you if I came across too 'bitchy', in my post, that absolutely wasn't my intension, I hugely respect you for your well thought and clear posts and for your friendly personality!


No need to apologise. Didn't think you were bitchy at all! Just passionate about your opinion, just as I am. So all good!  :smiley_abuv:  :icon_e_wink: :icon_e_wink: :icon_razz: :icon_razz:

Quote
For a long time, I thought about Michael being the driver of his hoax as well, but for me, it simply has taken too long for him to prove his point. How crazy these stories might get, people don't start looking for the truth. What truth? About Michael? Only his supporters are interested in that. And not even all of them, because many fans made it clear that, if it came out that he had faked his death, they would hate him for it.

I don't think he is trying to get people to see truth with these crazy stories. I think he is trying to get them to fall hard. Get attention before a reveal. The reveal is what will make people see the truth. The crazy stories just add weight to the lesson. How dumb are MJ (deader) fans going to feel after hating on CM for 4 years even wanting him dead. How stupid are the non MJ fans going to feel after MJ returns when they realise the media got it wrong and were 'punked' about him dying - a new level of respect for the man they once disregarded, mocked, presumed crazy. What about all the people that change their opinion on MJ being guilty of the allegations... I don't think they will hate him at all, which is what you fear. I think it will have the exact opposite effect.

Quote
Truth about being lied to by the media, the government etc? Then he'll has to reveal major, important issues that will trigger people to start looking for what really is happening in the world. Stories about a certain Conrad Murray holding a penis of a drugaddicted former superstar (ofcourse not my opinion!) won't incite people to start looking for truth. Even if he was the greatest man on earth (for us). Other issues are keeping people busy, the crisis, struggling to provide food for their families, they don't even have to time to search for the truth. Once he himself will make his reveal, I don't believe either that people THEN start looking.

Maybe there is MORE to reveal than just Michael not being dead. Music industry, TPTB, I dunno- But don't forget this:

[youtube] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNDbGh9JTd4 [/youtube]


Quote
You said:

MJ being a Drug addict is cleared up
That's the question. Because the fact that he is alive, doesn't mean he wasn't on certain types of drugs (ín peoples opinion). Maybe they will think that BECAUSE he was on drugs, he pulled of such a lie to the world.
Actually this hoax is so complex, you have to be ahead of the ball all the time and at times as we have seen its very ad-hoc. A drug addict wouldn't be coherent enough or command the mental faculties required to pull off such a complex hoax.

Quote
MJ being dead is cleared up
That's true. But you can't blame the media for reporting michael's death. Because there was a memorial, a funeral, a conviction, tributes etc. etc. So it was not the media that lied, but Michael himself.

Agree with you Michael started this. He is the one trying to educate and give the lesson. Yes he set the media up. Still if he returns it clears up the death, showing that the media are a source of untrustworthy news because they will report fact about things that are fiction - just like the rest of the trash. And furthermore the judicial system will convict someone of their death WITHOUT evidence, when the subject is alive. Bringing into question judicial systems. And automatically bringing into question everything that went wrong on 93 and 05 - because it ALL parallels.
Quote

CM is vindicated
True, but what about the stories he now fed us, still lies lies lies, all lies, made up by Michael (in peoples opinion)
If MJ is alive, it naturally vindicates CM of manslaughter. The other smack talk stories all sprung from the original event of MJ "dying" if he returns it dissolves much of the 'crazy'
 
Quote
Paris suicide attempt is undone
When Michael comes back, he can expect a giant backlash because he drove his daughter into a suicide attempt because of his so called hoax. People will view him as a selfish father (in peoples opinion)

Sorry you may have misunderstood me - I DON'T BELIEVE she attempted suicide. (sorry! No offense intended) Just like I don't believe Janet put a gun to KJs head, just like I don't believe the Jackson kids kidnapped KJ, Just like I DON'T believe CM killed MJ, Just like I don't believe MJ died. It's all linked (imo) and if you look at the story she attempted suicide **because she was devestated that her dad died** Her dad isn't dead and the story is ficticitous. http://www.tmz.com/2013/08/15/debbie-rowe-paris-jackson-testimony-trial/

Quote
Infighting in Jackson family is cleared up
They are and will be viewed as equally crazy
MJ obviously doesn't think so, he is taking the risk because he KNOWS the odds. We don't know all the cards he is playing. Reasons why. Just remember V - Evie was lied to - but learned a truth. I tend to think that there weren't V references in this hoax for nothing...

Quote
CM holding Michael's penis is cleared up among other crazy stories
Michael tried many times to deny crazy stories, but have planted many of them himself. Why should people start to believe him now?
This hoax is possibly (imo) approx 30 years in the making. The 'crazy' history is 'part' of it. It is actually the same story and character development.

sidenote: I have a feeling, out of all people "post return" its the MJ fans themselves that get the greatest shock. Something tells me that he is never the man they think he is and they are in for a doosie!

Quote
MJ injecting himself with a lethal dose of Propofol is cleared up
Undeniable!

YAY! We agree on something!

Quote
Years went by and still many people believe he was a chi-mo. The fact that WR made a claim doesn't help to clear his name either  Many people don't want to see the truth, I believe that is the biggest problem.

No they don't want to see truth about MJ - you are right. BUT..... The same ppl who tell the world about crazy looney Michael Jackson are also the same source who tell us about war, finances, politics, etc etc etc... So something tells me (have no proof for this, just a gut feeling) that every one WILL be interested because everything we are told, we read and see is of interest to everyone.

Re: Wade - he is just a tick/leech, take your pick. He will get his in a big way and be made a fool of. Who knows, perhaps post return, MJ may even have grounds for lawsuit. Afterall this guy thinks MJ is dead, so he can say what he likes with no recourse for MJ. It sux! I agree!!


It sounds as though (and I mean this with the upmost respect) the issues you raise about MJ are your own personal unresolved fears/issues/feelings on it. (talking about you raising: MJ lies/family/paris/ppl not believing him etc) MJ knows that this is controversial. And you don't do "controversy" for nothing. He obviously trusts that when he reveals and the reason WHY he did this is revealed, that it will be deemed justifiable to the public because the "good" whatever that will be will far out weigh the bad.

However, as I said, I may be way off. May have it wrong and who knows. This is just what I believe because If I see it as MJ not in control, then really the whole hoax can be unravelled and questioned if it even exists and I start going down hoax within a hoax track. The fact that he eluded to hoax in lyrics and interviews and via other people before it happened discounts a hoax within a hoax. So the only way for me to look at this is he is in complete control and it is all part of the script.


Moving on from what I believe Do, what are the other explanations?

There is only one explanation for CM's exhibition regarding the allegations on Sixty Minutes:


  • CM is NOT on team MJ - Which (to me) is impossible

There is only one explanation for the Penis Story:

  • CM is NOT on team MJ - Which (to me) is impossible.

    "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth" - Arthur Conan Doyle Snr


    A trip down memory lane remembering all those times Michael concocted distasteful, controversial or concerning moments where he paints himself in a (Deliberate) unflattering light...













    I often doubt, this guy was Michael, but that's OT






    Just like the past controversy, the latest stuff is all part of the act.

« Last Edit: November 27, 2013, 09:40:16 AM by Australian MJ BeLIEver »
People laugh when I explain. And though they may laugh, that doesn't change the fact that it's still the truth.


Michael is Alive
The end of evil is nigh
Trust in God
The righteous will prevail

Offline Starchild

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As often stated on the forum, there are signs that MJ could have been planning this hoax for years, for entertainment purposes. MJ is one of the most famous persons on the planet; thus whether or not the general public agrees with MJ, or whether or not they are even fans, people pay attention to what MJ directly says and does. Michael is a force for good, and if he consequently used his fame as a platform to expose the NWO agenda, that obviously wouldn’t please TPTB. And so if this is the case, one way or another, MJ had to be stopped, which brings us to an additional explanation. In short, we now possibly have a hoax with entertainment aspects (e.g., clues that MJ is alive, ARG characteristics, courtroom antics, and so on) mixed with serious issues (e.g., past statements and songs MJ has made referencing Illuminati influence, numerology that is characteristic of Illuminati tactics [and we’re thus left wondering which activities are/have been orchestrated by MJ versus TPTB], and people suddenly coming out of the woodwork with new accusations and insinuations about MJ and pedophilia [attempting to discredit MJ in the event of a BAM?]). And the media, knowingly or unknowingly, is the most powerful tool of manipulation used by TPTB, and MJ could very well be in the process of exposing that.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2013, 10:48:47 AM by starchild »
It's all for L.O.V.E.

Offline gwynned

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I really love this conversation!  Just a few thoughts for what it's worth.  As a parent, you try and teach a kid about the dangers of fire.  If they touch something hot but don't get burned, they may not really learn the lesson.  To carry forward the analogy, I think the absurdities are part of the lesson, as Aussie has suggested.  Think of it as a running joke.  Some of us caught on early and have shared quite a few laughs ourselves as we discovered how we had been fooled.  We've learned to question stories and not take the media at face value because of these lessons learned.  We had an interest and paid attention and, frankly, it really wasn't that hard to figure at least some things out.

But most people are very distracted.  They never bother with details.  They are too busy.  You tug at their arms, they pull away.  No time.  You find a 1000 ways to grab their attention, but their responses are polite, unconvinced.  People need shock and awe.  A lesson they/we will never forget.  And we really have to get it this time, or its too late.  Its irreversible. 

That ah-ha moment has to reverberate throughout the world in such a way that profound change cannot help but occur.  If you know my thoughts on the matter, you are aware that I don't think the BAM is confined to the MJ hoax.  There are plenty of other absurd stories out there that, once revealed, will have the masses speechless.  By way of encouragement, I have noticed significantly more people recognizing the fakery in the media due no doubt to the increasingly obviousness of it.  The LAX 'terrorist' attack was debunked within a day and if you google Sandy Hook Hoax you will find the number of viewers in the hundreds of thousands.  Perhaps it's only a faint rumble of awareness at this point, but I can sense cracks in the ground as new life, in the form of truth, pushes it's way to the surface. 

They say he who laughs last laughs best and I can't help but picture Michael rolling on the floor laughing right now.  That should make us all smile. 

Offline Do

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Aussie, wow, thanks alot for your extensive post! You really took the time to make me see and i must admit that I TOTALLY understand your explanation.
But......you said:

Quote
Sorry you may have misunderstood me - I DON'T BELIEVE she attempted suicide. (sorry! No offense intended) Just like I don't believe Janet put a gun to KJs head, just like I don't believe the Jackson kids kidnapped KJ, Just like I DON'T believe CM killed MJ, Just like I don't believe MJ died. It's all linked (imo) and if you look at the story she attempted suicide **because she was devestated that her dad died** Her dad isn't dead and the story is ficticitous.

Aussie, I know you don't believe those stories! I didn't misunderstood you  :icon_mrgreen: But my point is: how many people actually DO believe those? They didn't research for years (like you/we did) and they also haven't read ALL the (add up)  stories so they don't realise that there is something very 'strange' going on. They only catch a little part of the picture so they have absolutely no idea what's going on. They only know the major news facts, but haven't caught the inconsistencies. I agree with you that the shock his comeback will cause might be enough to open peoples eyes. I really hope so! But I have to admit I have a hard time to believe in that. I really would hate it when Michael makes all this efforts and put himself in front of the world as a crazy, drug addict wacko to make people 'see' and it would turn out that he did it for nothing, even worse, that people are finally convinced that he is as crazy as they thought he would be.
I wish I had the time to type a longer answer, but I have two sons who are ill with the flu and a husband who had surgery so duty calls! Thanks again Aussie, for lifting my spirits!
« Last Edit: November 27, 2013, 02:58:52 PM by Do »

"Three passions, simple but overwhelmingly strong, have governed my life: the longing for love, the search for knowledge, and unbearable pity for the suffering of mankind."
Bertrand Russel

Offline blankie

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For me too the only certain thing is that behind all there is Michael

                     :ghsdf: :moonwalk_:
LOVE YOU MORE

Offline Australian MJ BeLIEver

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Aussie, wow, thanks alot for your extensive post! You really took the time to make me see and i must admit that I TOTALLY understand your explanation.


No worries mate!  :icon_e_wink:

Again, I might be off course. But it's the only way I can logically make sense of it all myself...

Quote
Aussie, I know you don't believe those stories! I didn't misunderstood you  :icon_mrgreen: But my point is: how many people actually DO believe those? They didn't research for years (like you/we did) and they also haven't read ALL the (add up)  stories so they don't realise that there is something very 'strange' going on. They only catch a little part of the picture so they have absolutely no idea what's going on. They only know the major news facts, but haven't caught the inconsistencies. I agree with you that the shock his comeback will cause might be enough to open peoples eyes. I really hope so! But I have to admit I have a hard time to believe in that. I really would hate it when Michael makes all this efforts and put himself in front of the world as a crazy, drug addict wacko to make people 'see' and it would turn out that he did it for nothing, even worse, that people are finally convinced that he is as crazy as they thought he would be.


I don't have explanations for events that have not yet and may not happen. But I can only imagine, that if MJ comes back ALIVE - Remember this has NOT Been don't on this scale before with as much impact, THIS WILL BE HUGE!!! It really does nullify all the other stuff. I mean If Paris was suicidal because of reason X - X being MJ dead, and MJ is not dead, Then Paris was never suicidal... and so forth with the other stories...

Again, I know what you are saying "People might not see it that way" but I am TRUSTING and BETTING that the reason behind this and the welcomed reception MJ received for whatever reason (whether enlightenment or entertainment) the audience will see that the good far out ways the bad - Why I referred to V for Vendetta.

About this:

Quote
They didn't research for years (like you/we did) and they also haven't read ALL the (add up)  stories so they don't realise that there is something very 'strange' going on. They only catch a little part of the picture so they have absolutely no idea what's going on.

Something tells me that the way in which MJ will do this will FORCE people to see the big picture and they won't need to do the research for years. Half of this is ARG for entertainment, to confuse and keep us hoaxers entertained and on our toes and breathe life to hoax rumours via the internet. Even post return, many may not be aware and get to learn the same way that hoax world has done the past 4.5 years. The stuff that they will 'get' is the relevant important stuff.

I AM TRUSTING IN MJ that he has planned this out right. Remember if this hoax is approx. 30 years in the making, he hasn't not written the grand finale. He would have it mapped out and would have scrutinized every detail in the planning phase. You don't hoax your death and plan to come back **without** doing a huge amount of planning and testing regarding the finale. (why I posted the PsyOP stuff in other thread) Trust he has it worked out. Who knows, as suggested by others, he may have allies in the celeb/entertainment industry or even higher places that will compliment his return??? (un-evidenced speculation only)


**IF it doesn't go that way, so be it. After all we are all aware of the saying "You cant please all of the people all of the time, only some of the people some of the time" There are some that wont like it. Guaranteed. Haters are gonna hate. THERE ARE SOME WHO LIKE THE COMFORT OF THE BUBBLE OF DECEPTION. But whether you choose to love MJ and are over the moon about his return, or choose to hate him and think its was selfish its all publicity, it means the world talks about him and he stays current, 50 years into his career. It means his legacy lives on.

Again though, we are speculating on events that have not yet happened. Even though we know so much - We still don't know a lot on our side of the table. I am sure that there are surprises for us too. Why worry and fear when we don't know everything from MJs side of the table??


Quote
I wish I had the time to type a longer answer, but I have two sons who are ill with the flu and a husband who had surgery so duty calls! Thanks again Aussie, for lifting my spirits!

Hope your family gets over the flu! I have had extra time to put more effort into posts because I took a few days off work to chill out. It's not always that I can be this thorough.


Tell me to shut up anytime soon anyone - I'm aware I talk too much and have bombarded all the threads the past few days!!! SORRY PEEPS! :icon_lol: :icon_lol: :icon_lol: :icon_lol:


 :smiley_abuv: and Love to all! :-*



EDITED


 
« Last Edit: November 27, 2013, 09:29:03 PM by Australian MJ BeLIEver »
People laugh when I explain. And though they may laugh, that doesn't change the fact that it's still the truth.


Michael is Alive
The end of evil is nigh
Trust in God
The righteous will prevail

Offline Australian MJ BeLIEver

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As a parent, you try and teach a kid about the dangers of fire.  If they touch something hot but don't get burned, they may not really learn the lesson.  To carry forward the analogy, I think the absurdities are part of the lesson, as Aussie has suggested.  Think of it as a running joke.  Some of us caught on early and have shared quite a few laughs ourselves as we discovered how we had been fooled.  We've learned to question stories and not take the media at face value because of these lessons learned.  We had an interest and paid attention and, frankly, it really wasn't that hard to figure at least some things out.

But most people are very distracted.  They never bother with details.  They are too busy.  You tug at their arms, they pull away.  No time.  You find a 1000 ways to grab their attention, but their responses are polite, unconvinced.  People need shock and awe.  A lesson they/we will never forget.  And we really have to get it this time, or its too late.  Its irreversible. 


 :th_bravo: You are so right!


My sister who I have talked about the hoax with over and over, and says she doesn't believe me (only out of fear - because she is still stuck at the "Michael wouldn't do this to his fans" hurdle) Facebook messaged me in an abusive rant after Conrad went onto 60 minutes. She doesn't believe, LOL, yeah right (fence sitter!) which is why she said to me "Isn't Murray supposed to be on MJs side, What are they doing?!?!?!" I said to her, "Trust in MJ its all part of the script. Stay calm and keep watchin" (Didn't throw in the jab of 'ha, I thought you thought he was dead')

You know what her reply was, "Well even if Michael is planning this and did 60 minutes thing on purpose and the Penis story on purpose, it has to stop they are out of control, Look what it is doing to poor Paris!! She is suicidal for goodness sake!! If this is true, MJ is selfish and he has lost me" (She is talking out of emotion and about something she does not understand - SHE ADORES MJ which is why she cares about the stories so much) My reply to that was "Are you sure about that. You were told that she was suicidal by the media. Like you were told MJ is dead and a pedophile, yet I can see that you believe neither of those two things, so what makes the Paris story true?"

I guess my point to this story is that Gwynned is right. People are distracted. This hoax has many layers. It is not just a cliche. If you get past the "He wouldn't do this to his kids" and get past the "Paris Suicide" stuff she would have been a firm believer by now, the proof I have given her is why she is a borderline believer. But its those other distracting barriers she can't get over.

But also, as Gwynned pointed out people are distracted and I will add, dumbed down. The majority are more interested in Miley twerking, Kim Kadashians Ass, the lastest surgery, who is wearing what, who is doing drugs in Hollywood, etc. Incredibly distracted.

Maybe that's the point of this - to snap out of being drones an distracted by whatever is thrown at you by media and start asking questions and start looking for truth like many of us here have started doing. The fact many ARE buying every story and believing it IS the lesson. The more they fall for it, the more they can be taught by it post return.






« Last Edit: November 27, 2013, 09:47:58 PM by Australian MJ BeLIEver »
People laugh when I explain. And though they may laugh, that doesn't change the fact that it's still the truth.


Michael is Alive
The end of evil is nigh
Trust in God
The righteous will prevail

Offline bec

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Snead O'Conner was just talking about sexual distraction in the music industry and how it's perpetuated in the media "tabloid lynchings", try to make young girls in Hollywood appear to be mentally ill and on the verge of a nervous breakdown (sex&drugs!) because as soon as they're labeled crazy in our society they become utterly irrelevant.
Are you entertained?

Offline MJonmind

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Aussie, please take a bow! Amazing posts (and on other threads)! I especially liked your listed "concocted" pics!
Quote
There is only one explanation for the Penis Story:

CM is NOT on team MJ - Which (to me) is impossible.

"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth" - Arthur Conan Doyle Snr

A trip down memory lane remembering all those times Michael concocted distasteful, controversial or concerning moments where he paints himself in a (Deliberate) unflattering light...

It would seem currently hoaxers are at a new crossroads now as to whether Murray is in on the hoax or not. When things get too crazy many start doubting or backing away. We have to then back-track and review all we know about the hoax, the numerology and how key Murray is for the carrying out of the hoax.