Brainstorm Session - Building a theory

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Brainstorm Session - Building a theory

  • on: April 15, 2011, 08:39:45 PM

Participating:

bec
RK
paula-c
AllInGoodTime
Sinderella
~Souza~

Purpose is to built a strong theory by presenting our own, and having it challenged by the others. I made it private so that we can stay on topic and not have emotionally based arguments in the thread, what will make it hard to oversee things. I think we should use this thread to post the subjects we need to cover and connect.
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Re: Brainstorm Session - Building a theory

  • on: April 19, 2011, 10:52:38 PM
ok I think through this in a well-founded and supported by all evidence

Offline bec

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Re: Brainstorm Session - Building a theory

  • on: April 19, 2011, 10:52:46 PM
here

ps. should we do it TS style and do all one thread?

or perhaps have a thread mirroring the redirect.

that would be good.
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Re: Brainstorm Session - Building a theory

  • on: April 19, 2011, 10:54:13 PM
Exactly, connecting the dots and making it as waterproof as we can.
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Re: Brainstorm Session - Building a theory

  • on: April 19, 2011, 11:34:43 PM
Quote from: "bec"
here

ps. should we do it TS style and do all one thread?

or perhaps have a thread mirroring the redirect.

that would be good.

I think one should begin posting a short, coherent theory, with as much included as possible so that others can challenge, debunk or add stuff to it. After a few days, I will close the thread and post the updated version in a new one, and we do it all over again, until our brains are the size of a peanut. :lol:
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Offline AllInGoodTime

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Re: Brainstorm Session - Building a theory

  • on: April 20, 2011, 12:14:27 AM
Hey guys and this should be fun...

One theory idea would work but I feel the most productive way to this is to critical think out each item in the hoax and debate its merit before moving on.

So as in my last TIAI post lets start there.

Question #1

Knowing what we know or think we do....

Could MJ pull off every aspect that we have seen with this hoax alone?


In essence this the beginning point as to where we are now.  Discounting numerology, predictions and messages in the clouds, could he do it all, successfully without help?

Once we have come to a conculsion on this question we move to next and build "our" theory.

When the answer of yes and no is decided, we move to next question of (say 911 call, ambo , body etc)  Tho holding strong to the question we have already answered.  Basically if we decide MJ needed help or not that outcome is what we work with going forward.  And as we build this "theory" each and every question we agree upon becomes "truth".  I believe in the end if we stick to the answers we decide we would/wil be close to what really happened.
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Offline AllInGoodTime

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Re: Brainstorm Session - Building a theory

  • on: April 20, 2011, 12:16:04 AM
My 2 cents worth....lol..I think alot of our theories would overlap and connect.  If I gave you mine and let you rip it up fine.  But when bec does hers, we would probably rip some of the same things.  So instead of "ripping"(used lightly), I purpose we build it together.  That way as each item is discussed all opinions are given and seen and yet not "spread" all over the forum.  Example, I say corpse, we debate but bec later says dummy.  Well we already debated that point.  and it would eliminate redundancies.   anyways..............
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Re: Brainstorm Session - Building a theory

  • on: April 20, 2011, 12:29:08 AM
That might be a good start. Discussion 1: Could he have done it alone?

I will post that in a new thread to keep it clear and so we can find everything easily later on.
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Offline AllInGoodTime

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Re: Brainstorm Session - Building a theory

  • on: April 20, 2011, 12:34:10 AM
Is only an idea, I'll go with whatever group decides....err souza...lol...regardless i believe every question we answer as a whole makes the next easier to figure out.
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Re: Brainstorm Session - Building a theory

  • on: April 20, 2011, 12:40:34 AM
I liked your post on tiai AIGT.

So in light of that, no, it's not realistically possible that he did this alone, ie without help from the authorities.

So ok, we have FBI. Which of all the govt departments, are most likely because they override everyone else. Well, except the CIA, but they're more international, working intelligence and all, so would be unlikely have an interest or stake in anything domestic like the death hoax (which is more or less, for all practical purposes, pretty isolated to the US).

So ok, so the FBI is involved. They would provide the means to keep it on the down low and prevent questions from being asked by any unaware but key players, example: helicopter guys.

So with the FBI on board, who does MJ really have to fool with the charade on 6/25? The media and the public. The media will fool the public on their own so really, all he has to fool is the media.

So if only the media need to be fooled, why bother with a real corpse? Or even a dummy for that matter.

But we saw something on 6/25 being loaded into and unloaded out of a helicopter.

So what was it? Doesn't matter really since we know it wasn't a dead MJ. And with the FBI on board, it could have been anything... it just had to look like a body from 100 yards away on camera.

That being said, if only the media needed to be fooled, and it's certainly not normal or usual to transport a body in a sheet, why did they decline the use of a body bag which would seem standard? Why draw attention this way?

Original theories were because Michael needed to breathe. I think there is a great deal of merit to our original work and this has always stuck in my mind.

Ps. my bad, I jumped in too fast. I can repost this elsewhere if you start another thread.
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Offline AllInGoodTime

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Re: Brainstorm Session - Building a theory

  • on: April 20, 2011, 12:46:01 AM
lol...too funny...one question at a time...pro and cons...conclusion...next question with revised "theory"....haha..in other thread.  /wink
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Re: Brainstorm Session - Building a theory

  • on: April 20, 2011, 12:46:30 AM
yes please, could you repost?
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Re: Brainstorm Session - Building a theory

  • on: April 20, 2011, 01:12:29 AM
The sheet usage is odd. I'm just throwing this into the thinking. Perhaps a clue as 'sheet rocking' is slang term for hallucinogens like crack, pcp..and sheet is also a term used for bank notes or money. If this is also a sting operation then the 25th June is bait as well.
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Re: Brainstorm Session - Building a theory

  • on: April 20, 2011, 11:40:58 AM
The FBI, I think they are the allies pricipales they must have the necessary contacts to make such a thing work, paramedics, hospital, coroner.
 Michael need not have all those contacts they were responsible for making the whole process from the arrival of paramedics (someone saw that?), Transportation to the coroner, the rest, the dates (I can not forget the numbers) is the work of Michael.

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Re: Brainstorm Session - Building a theory

  • on: April 20, 2011, 12:27:55 PM
And what about the security video, really existed, we must remember the story published by TMZ on these tapes, Michael Jackson supposedly died in his home the police have the videos, they just copied 4 minutes of images from surveillance videos the house the day of his death. The video shows the arrival at Jackson's home from trials around 12:30 AM, do not review the tapes to not consider it a homicide, but have them deleted?? And see!!
 They did not have a minimum of curiosity, so I wonder if these tapes actually existed

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Re: Brainstorm Session - Building a theory

  • on: April 20, 2011, 09:54:34 PM
Quote from: "paula-c"
And what about the security video, really existed, we must remember the story published by TMZ on these tapes, Michael Jackson supposedly died in his home the police have the videos, they just copied 4 minutes of images from surveillance videos the house the day of his death. The video shows the arrival at Jackson's home from trials around 12:30 AM, do not review the tapes to not consider it a homicide, but have them deleted?? And see!!
 They did not have a minimum of curiosity, so I wonder if these tapes actually existed
I'm persuaded the tapes are there. They are a  parallel to bashir's documentary just like Michael's rebuttal video. This is 2003--2005 revisitted.
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Re: Brainstorm Session - Building a theory

  • on: April 20, 2011, 09:58:45 PM
Quote from: "RK"
Quote from: "paula-c"
And what about the security video, really existed, we must remember the story published by TMZ on these tapes, Michael Jackson supposedly died in his home the police have the videos, they just copied 4 minutes of images from surveillance videos the house the day of his death. The video shows the arrival at Jackson's home from trials around 12:30 AM, do not review the tapes to not consider it a homicide, but have them deleted?? And see!!
 They did not have a minimum of curiosity, so I wonder if these tapes actually existed
I'm persuaded the tapes are there. They are a  parallel to bashir's documentary just like Michael's rebuttal video. This is 2003--2005 revisitted.

Wait explain. I'm intrigued.

(do you mean like how Bashir had tons of footage to chose from and sift through yet chose a combination of clever editing of a very small piece of footage to paint a twisted picture?)
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Re: Brainstorm Session - Building a theory

  • on: April 20, 2011, 10:03:21 PM
I'll be back. Gotta walk my dogs, take in some nature and let my brain get some order in amongst the chaos. :?
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Re: Brainstorm Session - Building a theory

  • on: April 20, 2011, 11:52:06 PM
yes in a way. I'm probably in the wrong thread for this as we are looking for proof more than theories but anyway, here goes.
It was only a matter of a few weeks ago and the majority of us wouldn't agree that FBI were involved, but the general concensus now is that they play a major role  because we were introduced or reintroduced to the idea of need for their involvment and voila...our theories have  expanded and changed to incorporate this. Somewhat of a floating foundation we are working with here as we get tweeked into line or rabbit hole.
Since the beginning of the hoax, I have been waiting for the surveilance tapes to surface as they contain the answers to what really went down, but instead we have been presented with only glimpses and flashes [ staged photos and videos] accompanied by an ongoing media campaign to malign and accuse Dr Murray and tales of police incompetence in erasing tapes. Of the bashir documentary, Michael said bashir used only material supporting negative views in the final version.  Somewhat like the image presented of DR Murray. Enter the rebuttal or Take 2- the footage you were never mean't to see. Two docos both compiled from the same source material to prove how easily media can distort 'fact' to suit any agenda. Part of the rebuttal video was not aired because videographer Hamid Moslehi refused to hand it over owing to a financial dispute with Michael [so we've been told]. The footage was found in a police search of Hamid's house in Nov'03 and it showed accusers the Arviso family praising Michael. When this was used in the trial in '05 courtroom observers thought the video did more harm than good to the prosecution. checkmate.
I have no doubt that there is a tape in Michael's possession that shows exactly what went down that day and the other day. It is the proof, the insurance policy, and the evidence.
Please bare with my shortcomings as an investigator. I know I am not good with logic as gut reactions and intuition are what speak loudest to me.
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Re: Brainstorm Session - Building a theory

  • on: April 21, 2011, 10:57:46 AM
I think that it will never know the content of these videos

Offline AllInGoodTime

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Re: Brainstorm Session - Building a theory

  • on: April 21, 2011, 11:44:01 AM
RK agree, til last couple weeks most folks thought MJ masterminded this all.  I however, never became a "poster" til recent but have always thought this was way above him.  The tapes in the house will never be seen i believe but as we will discuss later wouldn't show us anything anyway.  Soon, we will discuss as to "when" this really happened and i feel we will see it wasn't the 25th and that most likely none of the CPR/ambo scenario happened either.  Even if the "slow ride" and "stretcher at UCLA" did happen on the 25th, I really don't think anything happened in the house and it was mere "prep time" before the show started.   Anyway, we'll get to it.
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Re: Brainstorm Session - Building a theory

  • on: April 21, 2011, 11:44:06 AM
I am going to see what else i can find, return later..

Offline AllInGoodTime

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Re: Brainstorm Session - Building a theory

  • on: April 21, 2011, 12:57:12 PM
RK--"Please bare with my shortcomings as an investigator. I know I am not good with logic as gut reactions and intuition are what speak loudest to me."

Don't doubt yorself.  Do you remember when you would take a test in school or whatever.  You get a question that is difficult.  You pick an answer with your gut then debate why others are wrong.  When you can't find a reason to overrule your gut you keep your first choice.  You never change your answers!  It is usually right.

As applied to this,  I think whomever expects that we would go with our gut and not challenge ourselves to look elsewhere. We are a lazy species and always perfer things "handed" to us  rather than work for it.  Your "gut" maybe right,  but there is a reason it is.  That is what we must find.

Pep talk over.....
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Re: Brainstorm Session - Building a theory

  • on: April 27, 2011, 10:38:54 PM
and,..what is happening here too :?:

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Re: Brainstorm Session - Building a theory

  • on: May 01, 2011, 11:39:31 PM
another old information I found on another forum
post of the wife of Jeff Mills, Captain of the LAFD, who allegedly attended the Carolwood emergency call.
It is a post from the same 26J which gives details of the event without that Michael appoint post disappeared some time later

Quote
CPR VIP
Published by Darylynn at 12:01 am under Friends, Things and Stuff

CPR VIP: that’s the text message I received from Jeff at 2:38 PM yesterday. I am not going to write the name here because I don’t want search engines to turn it up but I think you know who I mean. As you know, Jeff’s fire station is in Bel Air and they got the emergency call. Jeff said they used everything in their paramedic kits and worked on him for 45 minutes taking turns doing chest compressions. He’s pretty sure he was gone before they got there. They went to UCLA medical center with him and had to stay quite a long time. I could see Jeff’s rescue ambulance- 71’s- on the news at the ER entrance for hours. He finally called me around 7 PM and still couldn’t say much. He was warned that the paparazzi can intercept cellphone calls. Back at his fire station, he was fielding phone calls from TMZ and other celebrity websites looking for information. Of course, he is saying, “No comment.” All of the guys on Jeff’s crew had cellphones with cameras but not one took a photo. That would be a million dollar photo. I asked him what I could write today and he said that he would only be comfortable with this… so that’s all for now. We also lost Farrah Fawcett yesterday and that was a long, hard brave struggle that she fought. I had the Farrah Flip back in the 1970’s… we all did.

According to this, Jeff was one of the paramedics who was in the ambulance... is mentioned in the the preliminary stage?

day 29:
Quote
There are some online rumors that a photograph of MJ was taken by a fireman and sold for $100,000. The photograph in question (which I won’t link to because it’s despicable) shows him in the back of the ambulance with a tube down his throat. You can see the hands of the paramedics still giving him CPR. You can also see a reflection on the glass where the photo was taken from outside the ambulance… not from inside. Also online are videos showing the ambulance being swarmed by paparazzi as they back out of the residence. What an insult to Jeff and his crew who worked so hard to try and bring him back. It made me angry but Jeff and the guys just laughed off the accusation. They said the first one of them that shows up with a new boat will be the prime suspect. It makes you realize how frustrating it must be for celebrities to read all the lies printed about them in tabloids. Anyway, that’s all I have to say about the whole thing today besides what I wrote on Friday. *Added later: some people are misunderstanding this post… I am saying the photo WAS taken by paparazzi and not the firemen. But someone made up a ridiculous rumor that it was taken by a fireman and he sold it for money. Jeff even had news people calling him at the station asking if it was true. He also had reporters come into the station when the door was left open asking for “off the record” comments. Ridiculous like anything you said would be confidential.

Richard Senneff (first paramedic on entering the room)
Martin Blount (fifth paramedic in entering the room)


Segúne that there were at least 5 and I see it does not mention any Jeff Mills
It is possible that the paramedics who attended the call actually and that declared in the view directly are not the same?
Would it not be logical that the captain of the team had been called to testify?
Jeffrey Mills is now, a possible witness for trial.
on the website of his wife, their children study also at UCLA.

http://millsfamilyhomepage.com/wp/?p=7516

Quote
Today is the one year anniversary of the death of Michael Jackson. Jeff, in discussing retirement and significant events in his career as a fire captain, mentioned that he had received a commendation for that emergency call. Typical of modest Jeff, he never even mentioned that to me before

Jeff is removed the next day (what a coincidence!) and that by addressing the emergency of CAROLWOOD of MICHAEL received A commemoration do?? and that by his modesty never had mentioned to her do??

Quote
Jeff will finally be home today after working the last three days in a row. When he called me last night on his cellphone, he received another phone call on the fire station phone. It was from a detective investigating the MJ case. They were going to come to the fire station to interview Jeff about the 911 call and what they saw and did that day. I’ll be interested to hear today when he gets home what they asked. I guess they wanted to question him earlier but that was when we were away in Carmel.

Quote
Also, if you haven’t visited in the last week or so, go back to last Friday’s entry to read about Jeff’s involvement with MJ. After this past week, he deserves a vacation!

Quote
You are so right… after Jeff’s last week with the MJ stuff sounds like he does need to get out of LA and relax!

Quote
I did see that Jeff was the one that got the call for MJ. Now that I know someone that actually ’saw’ him…was he truly 112 lbs. like the news has said??? I thought he looked great in his last rehearsal video. It’s all so sad.

Quote
OMGosh, I was AMAZED to see that Jeff was on the MJ scene!!! How exciting is that? Once in a lifetime experience I would think. I was mesmerized by the whole MJ thing. I grew up absolutely loving him in the 80’s and beyond. Always did like him, and always will. Some people just look at me like I’m crazy, but I don’t care LoL!!! I wouldn’t have even thought of these drugs being such a huge part of his life, especially the ‘hospital only’ ones – just makes the legend of him that more bazaar!

What is mean by thing that needs a break with what happened last week, they say it as if it would have led him throughout the week the matter, when it is assumed that Jeff was only in the subject as an hour.

and finally published this animation saying is she dancing thriller:


http://millsfamilyhomepage.com/wp/?p=5653