Michael Jackson - Man in the Mirror

  • 34 Replies
  • 616 Views

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online ~Souza~

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Hoaxer
  • *****
  • Mrs. SEHF
  • Posts: 10096
    • Show only replies by ~Souza~
    • Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators

Michael Jackson - Man in the Mirror

  • on: October 29, 2018, 05:57:18 PM
After the Teddy Perkins analysis, I'd like to share my thoughts on the 'brother theory' as I touched upon in the analysis. Join me in YouTube chat to let me know what you think! The video will start in 35 minutes!

https://youtu.be/Gz13VE9NR04

Online TooBAD

  • *
  • Hoaxer
  • Posts: 14
    • Show only replies by TooBAD

Re: Michael Jackson - Man in the Mirror

  • on: October 31, 2018, 11:08:58 AM
Thanks, interesting stuff. I would like to see more. Next time when you do a video, could you do a part 2 and dig deeper to show the differences between the two? Like the differences in face, body and manners? Would be interesting.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2018, 11:10:44 AM by TooBAD »

Offline Casey

  • *
  • Hoaxer
  • Posts: 11
    • Show only replies by Casey

Re: Michael Jackson - Man in the Mirror

  • on: October 31, 2018, 10:10:20 PM
Loved it!  Watched it 3 time.  I would also like to see more.  Thanks for doing it!!

Online ~Souza~

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Hoaxer
  • *****
  • Mrs. SEHF
  • Posts: 10096
    • Show only replies by ~Souza~
    • Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators

Re: Michael Jackson - Man in the Mirror

  • on: November 01, 2018, 11:07:00 AM
Thanks, interesting stuff. I would like to see more. Next time when you do a video, could you do a part 2 and dig deeper to show the differences between the two? Like the differences in face, body and manners? Would be interesting.

That is a challenge! But I like a challenge, I will see how far I get!

Online TooBAD

  • *
  • Hoaxer
  • Posts: 14
    • Show only replies by TooBAD

Re: Michael Jackson - Man in the Mirror

  • on: November 01, 2018, 02:47:53 PM
Thanks, interesting stuff. I would like to see more. Next time when you do a video, could you do a part 2 and dig deeper to show the differences between the two? Like the differences in face, body and manners? Would be interesting.

That is a challenge! But I like a challenge, I will see how far I get!
Great, looking forward to it :) Take your time.

Online ~Souza~

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Hoaxer
  • *****
  • Mrs. SEHF
  • Posts: 10096
    • Show only replies by ~Souza~
    • Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators

Re: Michael Jackson - Man in the Mirror

  • on: November 02, 2018, 06:46:40 AM
Maybe you guys can post some pictures and videos?

Offline Vikki

  • *
  • Hoaxer
  • Posts: 13
    • Show only replies by Vikki

Re: Michael Jackson - Man in the Mirror

  • on: November 02, 2018, 10:09:40 AM

Online ~Souza~

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Hoaxer
  • *****
  • Mrs. SEHF
  • Posts: 10096
    • Show only replies by ~Souza~
    • Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators

Re: Michael Jackson - Man in the Mirror

  • on: November 02, 2018, 01:17:58 PM
i found this old post and I believe Souza was one of the investigators?

https://doubledutchblogs.wordpress.com/2009/11/16/it-takes-two-to-tango-the-truth-the-lies-the-guilt-making-up/

Yes that's one of my first blogs. That really needed an update!

Offline Vikki

  • *
  • Hoaxer
  • Posts: 13
    • Show only replies by Vikki

Re: Michael Jackson - Man in the Mirror

  • on: November 04, 2018, 05:10:47 PM
watch this video...i think the voice and the dancing is very different ....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUY1BT3zSlI

Offline Vikki

  • *
  • Hoaxer
  • Posts: 13
    • Show only replies by Vikki

Re: Michael Jackson - Man in the Mirror

  • on: November 07, 2018, 02:31:45 PM
in this clip you can see that Michael seems a bit different,watch the left ear

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jRjpcIL4a8

------------------------
« Last Edit: November 07, 2018, 05:05:28 PM by Vikki »

Offline Vikki

  • *
  • Hoaxer
  • Posts: 13
    • Show only replies by Vikki

Re: Michael Jackson - Man in the Mirror

  • on: November 07, 2018, 05:13:58 PM
Ok, i see some differences on the face and especially the nose.. the one is straighter and the other is a bit lifted up in the end




More






Let me know what you think

Online TooBAD

  • *
  • Hoaxer
  • Posts: 14
    • Show only replies by TooBAD

Re: Michael Jackson - Man in the Mirror

  • on: November 08, 2018, 01:04:27 PM
Ok, i see some differences on the face and especially the nose.. the one is straighter and the other is a bit lifted up in the end




More






Let me know what you think
I'm not trying to be rude, but it's not good to compare pictures where Michael has a different facial expression, or the picture is taken from a completely different angle. Of course the pictures look different. I have a high-quality picture collection from the trial with different photos from each day. I will upload the folder for you. You can compare the pictures, and see how the angle of the picture matters and so on. My opinion is that the 2005 trial is always same MJ. He has the round mole in his left cheek (sometimes not visible if the picture is very light).

https://mega.nz/#F!i2xCiCgB!RFR3y7_MLgIc923G6nEE-Q

I hope it works.

Offline Vikki

  • *
  • Hoaxer
  • Posts: 13
    • Show only replies by Vikki

Re: Michael Jackson - Man in the Mirror

  • on: November 08, 2018, 01:20:16 PM
I'm not trying to be rude, but it's not good to compare pictures where Michael has a different facial expression, or the picture is taken from a completely different angle. Of course the pictures look different. I have a high-quality picture collection from the trial with different photos from each day. I will upload the folder for you. You can compare the pictures, and see how the angle of the picture matters and so on. My opinion is that the 2005 trial is always same MJ. He has the round mole in his left cheek (sometimes not visible if the picture is very light).

https://mega.nz/#F!i2xCiCgB!RFR3y7_MLgIc923G6nEE-Q

I hope it works.

Thanks for your reply,  but I was talking about the nose not the facial expressions

Online TooBAD

  • *
  • Hoaxer
  • Posts: 14
    • Show only replies by TooBAD

Re: Michael Jackson - Man in the Mirror

  • on: November 08, 2018, 02:00:43 PM
I know what you mean, but I think it just looks different because of the different camera angles. For example, sometimes if I am taking pictures of myself, my nose can look different from different perspectives.

Online TooBAD

  • *
  • Hoaxer
  • Posts: 14
    • Show only replies by TooBAD

Re: Michael Jackson - Man in the Mirror

  • on: November 08, 2018, 04:03:33 PM
These pictures were taken on the same minute, February 22nd, when Michael was leaving the courthouse. I think the first pic looks like the straighter nose one you posted.



Offline Vikki

  • *
  • Hoaxer
  • Posts: 13
    • Show only replies by Vikki

Re: Michael Jackson - Man in the Mirror

  • on: November 09, 2018, 08:57:21 AM
@TooBAD  I just posted what I saw and still see at some of his pictures : two different noses and different ears in some older pictures
« Last Edit: November 09, 2018, 08:58:12 AM by Vikki »

Online ~Souza~

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Hoaxer
  • *****
  • Mrs. SEHF
  • Posts: 10096
    • Show only replies by ~Souza~
    • Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators

Re: Michael Jackson - Man in the Mirror

  • on: November 09, 2018, 11:38:24 AM
I have looked at all the trial pictures a hundred times again (lol), and I think I agree with @TooBAD.

What I noticed looking at his pictures (and with that I mean the older, taller Michael since there aren't as many pictures of the younger, shorter one as far as I see) for 9+ years to try and figure out who is who, that sometimes he might look different but when you then look at other pictures from the same day, you can see it's him. I noticed that even though he has a pretty wide face with a big jawline, his face looks very narrow at a certain angle. The picture below was always suspect to me because of that and he looks way too short here since Lenny is only 5'8", but I realized later that Lenny often wears 3"heels. The angle of the picture makes Michael's face look much more narrow than it really is.





In some pictures his smile looks off but when looking at his hands in the same picture/shoot, they are swollen like balloons, so he was retaining a shit ton of water which made him look different:





While at a different day, where his hands are clearly less swollen, he starts to look like his old self again:




Also, his eyes look different sometimes due to his glaucoma, as you can see clearly in these pictures:





During the 2005 trial he was in a lot of pain, both physically and mentally, and that shows. The different lighting of many pictures doesn't help either. Plus we shouldn't forget that there are a gazillion pictures of him taken at random moments. If you'd do that with anyone, they would look different too in some pictures.


THAT SAID, I do believe there are pictures that we might think is him but is not and also not the other 'real' MJ. Besides the differences as explained above, the wigs and his contouring and make-up contributes to the mind fuck a lot and that, I believe, is what he did on purpose. It's much easier to make a good look-a-like look a lot more like you with plastic surgery and a shit ton of contouring and make-up. "If something is so unique it's easily copied." And it looks like that was mainly in the 00's. I don't think we see the younger brother in this era at all, maybe because they had some kind of fall out or something, so Michael needed a good double.

O2 guy was not Michael. I find a lot of pictures with sunglasses on to be suspect but what it gives away is O2 dude's smile. I am just not buying it, never have. Michael can stand right in front of me telling me it was him and I'd still call BS, not even he could convince me. The whole thing was just off.


Anyway, if anyone needs pictures to compare, we have a whole gallery: https://community.michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/gallery/
Just hover over 'Explore' in the top left corner and you can pick the era. I also named all the pictures so you can use the search option as well. I don't think the trial pictures are on there yet though.

I am hoping to do a video on the differences this weekend but no promises!

Online ~Souza~

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Hoaxer
  • *****
  • Mrs. SEHF
  • Posts: 10096
    • Show only replies by ~Souza~
    • Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators

Online ~Souza~

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Hoaxer
  • *****
  • Mrs. SEHF
  • Posts: 10096
    • Show only replies by ~Souza~
    • Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators

Re: Michael Jackson - Man in the Mirror

  • on: November 09, 2018, 11:59:09 AM
https://mega.nz/#F!i2xCiCgB!RFR3y7_MLgIc923G6nEE-Q
I hope it works.

It does, that is great!

Going through those dates, you see him go from strong, ready for battle and smiling to a very broken man. I had never seen these pictures like this in this order, thanks for sharing. Do you mind if I upload them to the gallery?

Online TooBAD

  • *
  • Hoaxer
  • Posts: 14
    • Show only replies by TooBAD

Re: Michael Jackson - Man in the Mirror

  • on: November 09, 2018, 03:09:52 PM
https://mega.nz/#F!i2xCiCgB!RFR3y7_MLgIc923G6nEE-Q
I hope it works.

It does, that is great!

Going through those dates, you see him go from strong, ready for battle and smiling to a very broken man. I had never seen these pictures like this in this order, thanks for sharing. Do you mind if I upload them to the gallery?
Sure, you can upload them :)

Online TooBAD

  • *
  • Hoaxer
  • Posts: 14
    • Show only replies by TooBAD

Re: Michael Jackson - Man in the Mirror

  • on: November 09, 2018, 05:01:15 PM
@~Souza~ I've never been sure about O2 either, so I understand well why you think it wasn't Michael. I agree with you, the smile was somehow off, but not in all pictures. There was probably plenty of makeup, and there were lights all over the place.
Just in case, I'll show some comparisons between O2 and trial MJ. Some pictures from O2 have the "real MJ" look to them. Judging by these I could say O2 was MJ... Through the years, Michael's side profile has always looked the same to me.

Taken from the right side:




(First, second and third picture, exactly the same upper teeth)


Left:





More left:




Smile & Teeth:





Cheek mole slightly visible under the sunglasses + Michael's fingernails/hands:

« Last Edit: November 09, 2018, 05:03:40 PM by TooBAD »

Online ~Souza~

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Hoaxer
  • *****
  • Mrs. SEHF
  • Posts: 10096
    • Show only replies by ~Souza~
    • Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators

Re: Michael Jackson - Man in the Mirror

  • on: November 10, 2018, 11:09:27 AM
I see what you mean, I have looked at those pictures for a thousand hours. I can't see the eyes which is a piss-off. The mouth is very off to me. There is a different picture of O2 dude behind the curtain and with that one I have zero doubt it's Michael. The dude on stage though? Nah. Something is just not right. It's not the details but more the overall presence that is throwing me off. Not sure how to explain.

Not Michael:


Michael:

« Last Edit: November 10, 2018, 11:10:14 AM by ~Souza~ »

Online TooBAD

  • *
  • Hoaxer
  • Posts: 14
    • Show only replies by TooBAD

Re: Michael Jackson - Man in the Mirror

  • on: November 10, 2018, 12:51:37 PM
Sorry if I'm just text bombing you here... but I have more thoughts I really wanna share.

Maybe the curtain pic was taken when Michael was entering the stage? It's dark backstage, he would look more "natural" without the lights and all. I mean... there were some lights involved. His hair makes his head look strangely wide, and the hair isn't visible in the curtain pic where he looks like normal MJ. Also if someone saw 2 MJ's there, the crowd would have gone NUTS. Lights:


About the mouth, take a close look at the first two pics taken from the right side and the "More left" (mouth & lip shape) pics I posted. Why/how would they create an impostor with the same teeth? Also, if Michael had been planning the hoax, why would he create an exact double for himself, when he knows he's gonna disappear in a few months? I doubt no-one would really have willed to be "MJ" for the rest of his life. Seems a bit too far fetched to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XPyoq9s-kA
Look at the video 1:22. When he nods to the guy apparently says "You're welcome". Really resembles what MJ would do.
He was probably really nervous there... As we know, Michael is shy + he hadn't done big public appearances lately.

Michael started to use his lower voice more during the 2000s. O2 voice compared to Superbowl 1993, it's the same. Someone's theory was, that Michael usually wanted to speak with a high voice to keep his vocals warmed up. Seems like a reason to me.

To me, sunglasses make the O2 appearance look odd. Obviously we can't see the eyes then. Back in the Dangerous Tour, when Michael was just standing there before "Jam", he also had the sunglasses on. I always thought that it looked odd, like a different man. When he took the glasses off, I was like oohh, it's him. Light stage make-up and sunglasses, same case at O2:


« Last Edit: November 10, 2018, 12:58:54 PM by TooBAD »

Online ~Souza~

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Hoaxer
  • *****
  • Mrs. SEHF
  • Posts: 10096
    • Show only replies by ~Souza~
    • Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators

Re: Michael Jackson - Man in the Mirror

  • on: November 10, 2018, 02:51:56 PM
Quote
About the mouth, take a close look at the first two pics taken from the right side and the "More left" (mouth & lip shape) pics I posted. Why/how would they create an impostor with the same teeth? Also, if Michael had been planning the hoax, why would he create an exact double for himself, when he knows he's gonna disappear in a few months? I doubt no-one would really have willed to be "MJ" for the rest of his life. Seems a bit too far fetched to me.

I see differences in the teeth honestly. That sharp corner tooth is pointier on Michael's picture. Teeth are easy to fake/copy. I don't think he had an 'imposter' just for the This Is It announcement, I think we see this guy more often. And no one? Money buys a lot, I know that. Is it far fetched? Sure. Crazy even? I sure am by now. But I just don't see it. There are a few Michael's that look so much like him in detail during the 00's era but when you look at the full picture he just doesn't seem to be him. Again, I don't know how to explain, I might be bonkers.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2018, 02:59:06 PM by ~Souza~ »

Online TooBAD

  • *
  • Hoaxer
  • Posts: 14
    • Show only replies by TooBAD

Re: Michael Jackson - Man in the Mirror

  • on: November 10, 2018, 04:56:40 PM
Well, it's almost impossible to find a picture from the same angle.


The same line between the teeth. Still don't think?

Online ~Souza~

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Hoaxer
  • *****
  • Mrs. SEHF
  • Posts: 10096
    • Show only replies by ~Souza~
    • Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators

Re: Michael Jackson - Man in the Mirror

  • on: November 12, 2018, 03:50:11 AM
Well, it's almost impossible to find a picture from the same angle.


The same line between the teeth. Still don't think?

No, still see tiny differences. But to me the teeth don't really matter, that is the easiest to do. Just rip out all the double's own teeth and give him a set of fakes. It's really the smile that throws me off. There are so many pictures of that appearance  and I can't find one picture that tells me it's Michael. Like I said, usually I see one picture that looks off, but when I look through the series I have no doubt. But with this dude, I still have doubts. Both appearance and behavior. Looking at the details you'd say it's him. But looking at the whole think? Nah. Who knows though, not much surprises me anymore these days.

Offline iamhere4mj

  • *
  • Hoaxer
  • Posts: 472
    • Show only replies by iamhere4mj

Re: Michael Jackson - Man in the Mirror

  • on: November 16, 2018, 07:03:06 PM
Not sure if this is the best place to put this, but it does add to there possibly being two different people.

Why are there 10 children depicted? Bottom lower left shows 10 kids. This is the mural that was done for the Michael cd.

http://www.mjworld.net/wp-content/uploads/King-Of-Pop-Mural-Full-Kadir-Nelson.jpg

Love you Michael!

Offline Vikki

  • *
  • Hoaxer
  • Posts: 13
    • Show only replies by Vikki

Re: Michael Jackson - Man in the Mirror

  • on: November 22, 2018, 09:37:16 AM
two videos of the Bad Tour showing some differences... look at the shoulders and the slight difference in the voice

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcGWOP39GG0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vF1LV-_tqU



Online TooBAD

  • *
  • Hoaxer
  • Posts: 14
    • Show only replies by TooBAD

Re: Michael Jackson - Man in the Mirror

  • on: November 22, 2018, 12:20:41 PM
Sorry, I don't hear any vocal tone difference between Yokohama and Kansas.

Here are some screenshots from both shows, sorry :Cool:






Offline Vikki

  • *
  • Hoaxer
  • Posts: 13
    • Show only replies by Vikki

Re: Michael Jackson - Man in the Mirror

  • on: November 22, 2018, 12:35:12 PM


Well, I can hear the difference in the voices 😉
« Last Edit: November 22, 2018, 01:27:18 PM by Vikki »

Offline trublu

  • *
  • Global Moderator
  • Hoaxer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1175
    • Show only replies by trublu

Re: Michael Jackson - Man in the Mirror

  • on: November 22, 2018, 12:39:47 PM
I agree that he does look different. His shoulders appear smaller though we theorized on the chat that he could have simply lost weight by the Asian part of his tour as it was over a year later.


Online TooBAD

  • *
  • Hoaxer
  • Posts: 14
    • Show only replies by TooBAD

Re: Michael Jackson - Man in the Mirror

  • on: November 22, 2018, 01:34:32 PM
I listened to Rock With You from both shows. The audio of Yokohama show is a bit clearer, and has a better mix compared to the Kansas clips. Maybe that's what you're hearing?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMPOHKPk_kY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71XpqhtnNiA

For example, compare the intro and: "And we can ride the boogie / share that beat of love / I wanna rock with you" etc. Sounds the same to me. Both also have the same rhythmic patterns.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2018, 01:38:00 PM by TooBAD »

Online ~Souza~

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Hoaxer
  • *****
  • Mrs. SEHF
  • Posts: 10096
    • Show only replies by ~Souza~
    • Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators

Re: Michael Jackson - Man in the Mirror

  • on: November 22, 2018, 04:47:53 PM
I agree that he does look different. His shoulders appear smaller though we theorized on the chat that he could have simply lost weight by the Asian part of his tour as it was over a year later.

Yes that was my first thought too, yet Yokohama was about 5 months BEFORE Kansas, so that means he gained weight during his tour?  :Thinking:

Offline trublu

  • *
  • Global Moderator
  • Hoaxer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1175
    • Show only replies by trublu

Re: Michael Jackson - Man in the Mirror

  • on: November 24, 2018, 12:00:32 PM
I agree that he does look different. His shoulders appear smaller though we theorized on the chat that he could have simply lost weight by the Asian part of his tour as it was over a year later.

Yes that was my first thought too, yet Yokohama was about 5 months BEFORE Kansas, so that means he gained weight during his tour?  :Thinking:

Oh okay I didn't realise that.

Yeah he does seem differently built, I've always thought so. The guy at Wembley looks tall with broad shoulders. The guy in Asia seems much daintier.

Offline Vikki

  • *
  • Hoaxer
  • Posts: 13
    • Show only replies by Vikki

Re: Michael Jackson - Man in the Mirror

  • on: November 25, 2018, 09:28:51 AM
The guy at Yokohama concert has a softer voice:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPK2k5U523o


The guy at Wembley concert has a "rougher" voice, a bit bass one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujDSiL600nc

The difference is minimum, but you can hear it in Human Nature better than in other songs

 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
2 Replies
502 Views
Last post December 11, 2009, 03:33:46 AM
by sosh
13 Replies
815 Views
Last post February 02, 2010, 03:55:25 PM
by mjjglory
0 Replies
178 Views
Last post March 28, 2010, 02:24:39 PM
by MJmakesmespeechless
81 Replies
3734 Views
Last post May 10, 2010, 03:52:27 PM
by nefari
3 Replies
434 Views
Last post July 29, 2019, 03:11:23 PM
by SMELLYMJ