Paramedic

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Offline LadyMedic

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Paramedic

  • on: January 12, 2010, 01:42:45 PM
Hello everyone!

I thought I'd start out by posting here in case people are not receptive to what I have to offer. I certainly do not want to anger anyone or step on any toes. I joined this forum after reading a lot of discerning responses to questions on Yahoo Answers regarding MJs alledged death. I have to say that I lean more towards he really has passed away, but I am open to believing anything is possible, and I respect you all for trying to dig deep to find the truth!

With that, I want to introduce myself. I am a paramedic on the east coast, and that is the reason I joined this forum. While I do not know much about the situation as a whole, particularly information and conferences that happened after the incident, I do want to help where I can. I am very interested in the ambulance photo, as I can answer many questions you may have about what is actually happening in the picture. Also, any questions you may have about what the medics did and why, and other events surrounding the incident from a medical perspective.

I wanted to post all of this first because again, I do not want to come on here and just begin telling you my opinion on the photo, as I fear I may come off crass, although that it not my intention. I want to be entirely unbiased and respectful of all of you. I would like to hear feedback on here as to whether or not any of you would like to hear about things from my perspective, and hopefully answer any of your questions about the ambulance picture and other emergency related things.

Thanks!!
Victoria
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline anotherpartofme

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Re: Paramedic

  • on: January 12, 2010, 02:34:34 PM
welcome to the forum!

at the very beginning, we discussed about it but still want to hear from you as a professional person-why ambulance went as slow and why it was not sound and light signaling.. after all in the vehicle was someone whose life was in danger..
Thanks
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline LadyMedic

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Re: Paramedic

  • on: January 12, 2010, 02:46:07 PM
Quote from: "anotherpartofme"
welcome to the forum!

at the very beginning, we discussed about it but still want to hear from you as a professional person-why ambulance went as slow and why it was not sound and light signaling.. after all in the vehicle was someone whose life was in danger..
Thanks

Typically when you're performing CPR in the back of an ambulance, you're standing up. There are also a lot of other things you'd be doing (intubating, which was obviously already done, pushing meds, possibly defibrillating) and it can get chaotic. The driver went slow as a courtesy to the paramedics in the back. I know I would be FURIOUS at my driver if they decided to fly backwards. I can't tell you how many times I have to tell me driver to slow down because I'm trying to do something in the back.

Also, they went slow probably because of all of the people standing around. Some ambulances have video cameras in the visor so they can see behind the ambulance, but many don't. So you're restricted to the use of only your mirrors to back you up. And the box ambulances have a horrible turning radius. I did check the video that you're referring to, and the lights are on. As for the sirens, this was a courtesy to those standing around as sirens can be quite deafening, and there really is no need for them at that point (in the driveway while backing up). It's clear that the ambulance is backing up, so they do not need to blast sirens. On the road, they should have their sirens on. However, from experience, there are many drivers who still do not use the siren once on the road. I always try to when there is traffic, but if the road is clear or people are moving out of my way, I may not.

And with that being said, those are strictly facts, and realistically how things work in EMS. I'm not saying MJ was or wasn't actually in the back.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline tinker_bell

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Re: Paramedic

  • on: January 12, 2010, 05:34:31 PM
Thank you, LadyMedic! I'm very curious of your professional opinion!
Is the intubating mask positioned correctly on the ambulance pic? It seems too low and not covering the area (mouth&nose)?
According to paramedics MJ was "gone before they they arrived", we also heard from the doc MJ wasn't breathing or responding to CPR which continued for over 40 min. if that's true and MJ was in such condition for about an hour before paramedics arrived, would they be working on him for 40 min  and then another hour in UCLA? That makes a total of about 3 hours of working on a dead man...
Why aren't thre IV stands when the strether is moved down to the hospital?
I know it's more appropriate question for the forensics, but still: is it normal to use white sheets vs blue/black bag for the body that has just been performed extensive CPR measures on?
Does Murray's deposition about dosage and timing ring true to you?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »


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Offline mjj29081958

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Re: Paramedic

  • on: January 12, 2010, 05:53:36 PM
Hi Victoria!

Thank you very much! Your insights & knowledge will be really appreciated here! Sometimes things becomes really messy, quite often we just can "guess" in some issues like medical and legal related.

So, I have a question, I don't know if you are able to respond this one, I know you said you're paramedic, so I guess you don't have to know this, but maybe you have some idea: Have you ever listened the 911 call? What can you say about it? Does it sound like a normal / routine procedure? I mean the 911 operator saying "Ok sir. Call us back if you need any help. Thank you" .

Thanks in advance, and a very warm welcome to the forum
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline LadyMedic

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Re: Paramedic

  • on: January 12, 2010, 09:45:07 PM
Quote from: "tinker_bell"
Thank you, LadyMedic! I'm very curious of your professional opinion!
Is the intubating mask positioned correctly on the ambulance pic? It seems too low and not covering the area (mouth&nose)?
According to paramedics MJ was "gone before they they arrived", we also heard from the doc MJ wasn't breathing or responding to CPR which continued for over 40 min. if that's true and MJ was in such condition for about an hour before paramedics arrived, would they be working on him for 40 min  and then another hour in UCLA? That makes a total of about 3 hours of working on a dead man...
Why aren't thre IV stands when the strether is moved down to the hospital?
I know it's more appropriate question for the forensics, but still: is it normal to use white sheets vs blue/black bag for the body that has just been performed extensive CPR measures on?
Does Murray's deposition about dosage and timing ring true to you?

In regards to the airway, when a patient is intubated, there is no need for a mask to go over the nose, or even the mouth. There is a tube inserted directly into the trachea, so oxygen is going directly into the lungs.
I can understand what they mean because it does look as though it's lower on his chin than one would expect. There is actually a bite block attached to the tube holder that goes into the mouth so the patient doesn't bite at the ET tube (if they were to wake up, seize, tetanus, etc). It looks like they use the same type my company does, so I'm familiar with them. My thought is they have it secured tightly enough around his neck that his teeth are moreso forced open because the bite block is so far down. It's definitely in his mouth, but it fits oddly from my experience using them. His ear is definitely smooshed by the tube holder, so it could be that it is pulled that tightly.
This is the tube holder:

And this is the bite block I was referring to:

Or it could be that his jaw is flaccid, but if he had already been dead for at LEAST 45 minutes at that point, rigor hasn't set in. In my experience, the jaw is still not easy to open. And also, the jaw is usually the first place of rigor to set in in a patient.

It does seem to look like the area between his nose and mouth is wider than most other people (maybe due to his rhinoplasty?), so that may also be why it looks so low. But I would feel comfortable concurring that the placement does look somewhat strange, although the tube is certainly in his mouth.
(I cross-posted the above from my post on michaeljacksonhoaxdeath.net)

Three hours is a long time to work someone. It could be because of his celebrity status that they worked him for so long. Most I've seen is maybe two hours, maybe a little longer. Buts that's with getting them back, hanging Dopamine and whatnot, they code, you work them again, you've pushed all of your ACLS meds and any other meds the doc wants to push, etc. But yes, three hours is a long time.

Typically with the IV bag, I may elect to just rest it on the patients legs, but if I am putting it on the IV pole, the pole is at the foot end of the stretcher. That is for the brands of stretchers I have used. Theirs may have been towards the head.

And what do you mean in reference to the color of sheets? At what point was this, and do you have any pictures?

And for the Propofol dosing, I don't know how much the doctor used or any of those facts, unfortunately.

Quote from: "mjj29081958"
Hi Victoria!

Thank you very much! Your insights & knowledge will be really appreciated here! Sometimes things becomes really messy, quite often we just can "guess" in some issues like medical and legal related.

So, I have a question, I don't know if you are able to respond this one, I know you said you're paramedic, so I guess you don't have to know this, but maybe you have some idea: Have you ever listened the 911 call? What can you say about it? Does it sound like a normal / routine procedure? I mean the 911 operator saying "Ok sir. Call us back if you need any help. Thank you" .

Thanks in advance, and a very warm welcome to the forum

Ok, I want to speculate on this as unbiased as I can. I have heard the 911 call. It's hard to say without using my opinion on whether or not the voice of whoever called was sincere. That's very subjective. In my experience, I have heard 911 calls from people screaming nonstop for 10 minutes and only giving an address and saying "she's dead" (which is unfortunately because then they're not taking instructions on how to do CPR) and from people who seem eerily calm. With the dispatcher, he did everything he was supposed to do. Because they did not need instructions on how to perform CPR, the dispatcher was entirely warranted in hanging up. There are few exceptions that will allow a dispatcher to stay on the phone, and talking a bystander through a procedure (such as CPR) is certainly one of them. But there was no need for the dispatcher to tell the doctor how to perform CPR as it was clear it was already being done (although I will throw in my own opinion and say that the doctor is a moron for doing CPR on the bed but that's not the fault of the dispatcher). Ambulances were dispatched after the address was received and the nature of the call was obtained. So that is very much standard procedure. There are protocols in which dispatchers are required to follow, and it appears that the dispatcher did just that.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline ILuvUMoreMJ

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Re: Paramedic

  • on: January 22, 2010, 04:34:46 AM
Interesting info...thank you and welcome!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline mjj29081958

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Re: Paramedic

  • on: January 22, 2010, 09:13:46 AM
Thanks for your answer Victoria!

I don't know if I'm allowed to put a link to the other forum here (feel free to delete this post if I'm not) but she answered a lot of questions "Last Pic" related, and also she did an interesting job by taking pics through the tinted windows of a real ambulance... Worth to take a look!  :D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Mel31

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Re: Paramedic

  • on: January 23, 2010, 12:52:56 AM
Thank you Victoria, your knowledge is very valuable!

You say that the dispatcher followed the procedure when he hang up because there a doctor on site, but something makes me tired since the beginning ... What evidence had the dispatcher to say that was really a doctor who was there,  I want to know it's there would ask for some identification of the physician?  :)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

in my heart there will always be a place for you for all my life i\'ll keep a part of you with me and everywhere i am there you\'ll be Michael L.O.V.E

Offline ijustwant2no

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Re: Paramedic

  • on: January 23, 2010, 06:22:13 PM
Hello,
which city do you work for? and what exactly is your expertise? The reason I'm asking is a member of my family is perimedic and they say that alot of things where wrong.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline LadyMedic

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Re: Paramedic

  • on: January 24, 2010, 04:00:26 PM
Quote from: "Mel31"
Thank you Victoria, your knowledge is very valuable!

You say that the dispatcher followed the procedure when he hang up because there a doctor on site, but something makes me tired since the beginning ... What evidence had the dispatcher to say that was really a doctor who was there,  I want to know it's there would ask for some identification of the physician?  :)

It's not so much just the fact that he was a doctor, it was the fact that CPR was already being performed by someone who is very much trained to do so. So for example, if I showed up on a scene of a cardiac arrest, and I was off the clock, the dispatcher wouldn't need to instruct me how to do CPR because I already know how. They stay on the phone when they need to talk someone through a procedure.
As for asking for the physicians credentials, that would be a definite waste of time, and at that point, no use to the dispatchers or paramedics.

Quote from: "ijustwant2no"
Hello,
which city do you work for? and what exactly is your expertise? The reason I'm asking is a member of my family is perimedic and they say that alot of things where wrong.

I work in Connecticut and I have been very active in EMS for the past 6 years. I work for a high call volume ambulance company that covers the city I work in as well as providing paramedic services to surrounding towns. We do critical care transports in addition to in city emergencies and intercepts. I also work for a BLS service per diem and I volunteer with my local fire department.

You're more than welcome to add your input about what your family member has said.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline mopey3655

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Re: Paramedic

  • on: August 08, 2010, 06:03:13 PM
I just wanted to add to the point of the photo that was taken with Michael allegedly in the back of the ambulance it has already been determined that the photo was fake.  I just dont understand if Michael really died and this tragic event did happen why are there so many untruths and fake stuff coming out about his death and the fact that the family doesnt seem to be that broken up about it everyone is going on with their daily lives like its no big deal.  That's what stumps me about all of this.
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Offline voiceforthesilent

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Re: Paramedic

  • on: August 08, 2010, 07:58:20 PM
Quote from: "mopey3655"
I just wanted to add to the point of the photo that was taken with Michael allegedly in the back of the ambulance it has already been determined that the photo was fake.  I just dont understand if Michael really died and this tragic event did happen why are there so many untruths and fake stuff coming out about his death and the fact that the family doesnt seem to be that broken up about it everyone is going on with their daily lives like its no big deal.  That's what stumps me about all of this.


Hi - I think that is what confuses a lot of us to the point of believing it has to be a hoax. If it's not a hoax then the family is acting very cruel....sending the kids to vacation in Hawaii on the death anniversary? How inconsiderate of Michael's memory...just my opinion.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline 2good2btrue

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Re: Paramedic

  • on: August 08, 2010, 08:30:26 PM
Hang on guys...I have no doubt that there was an ambulance at the Residence...but whether it had MJ in it is a different story.

Of course the picture was a fake..........it was a real picture of a real person dying but not on that day....MJ face was photoshopped on this older picture, to make it look like there was a patient in that No71 ambulance.  We never saw any other pictures of Michael being brought into the ambulance, or see any pictures of MJ on the stretcher being brought into the emergency room doors.

The bodyguards did a great job hiding any evidence by holding their jackets up, coverering a supposed body being transported.........

So don't start panicking yet...

I still remember reading a long time ago that there was a small fire in the same street, and a fire engine truck was already present before an ambulance was called...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline LadyMedic

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Re: Paramedic

  • on: August 08, 2010, 08:51:08 PM
Quote from: "mopey3655"
I just wanted to add to the point of the photo that was taken with Michael allegedly in the back of the ambulance it has already been determined that the photo was fake.  I just dont understand if Michael really died and this tragic event did happen why are there so many untruths and fake stuff coming out about his death and the fact that the family doesnt seem to be that broken up about it everyone is going on with their daily lives like its no big deal.  That's what stumps me about all of this.
No, it was not proven fake.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

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Re: Paramedic

  • on: August 08, 2010, 08:54:30 PM
Quote from: "LadyMedic"
Quote from: "mopey3655"
I just wanted to add to the point of the photo that was taken with Michael allegedly in the back of the ambulance it has already been determined that the photo was fake.  I just dont understand if Michael really died and this tragic event did happen why are there so many untruths and fake stuff coming out about his death and the fact that the family doesnt seem to be that broken up about it everyone is going on with their daily lives like its no big deal.  That's what stumps me about all of this.
No, it was not proven fake.
She's right, it wasnt...Oxman just said publicly that to him it looked fake...no proof and no one came forward.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline dominque

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Re: Paramedic

  • on: September 12, 2010, 02:27:08 PM
There was not a lot of people outside when the ambualance was backing out of the front entrance you only see the security guy for MJ in the suit helping the ambulance to back out there was not a lot of people there blocking the ambulance.

The photo to me was a fake because it show a much younger looking MJ from the 80's.
It was not a photo of 2010 of a older looking MJ so I believe the photo was fake.  Also all the media that ever surrounde MJ for years and years and this is the only photo of him unbeleiveable.

There is alo no video out there following the ambulance in route to the hospital gcalifornia is well know for their live tv when things are happening at the moment.

I believe something is not right rather he is alive or dead I dont know just suspicious how the most startling thing going on in MJ's death and there is no real proof.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline LadyMedic

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Re: Paramedic

  • on: September 13, 2010, 03:02:22 PM
Quote from: "dominque"
There was not a lot of people outside when the ambualance was backing out of the front entrance you only see the security guy for MJ in the suit helping the ambulance to back out there was not a lot of people there blocking the ambulance.

The photo to me was a fake because it show a much younger looking MJ from the 80's.
It was not a photo of 2010 of a older looking MJ so I believe the photo was fake.  Also all the media that ever surrounde MJ for years and years and this is the only photo of him unbeleiveable.

There is alo no video out there following the ambulance in route to the hospital gcalifornia is well know for their live tv when things are happening at the moment.

I believe something is not right rather he is alive or dead I dont know just suspicious how the most startling thing going on in MJ's death and there is no real proof.
I agree that it very well could be Michael from the 80s. It is certainly possible they faked a real scenario and photoshopped his picture. Or, they used a dummy. However, I would find incredibly difficult to believe that the photo itself is from the 80s.
There actually was video following the ambulance to the hospital:
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/video/michae ... d-10974241
Around the 1:35 mark is when the video plays on the screen.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

 

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