Anesthesiologist - How Propofol probably killed MJ

[somekindofsign]

...i have no reason to believe that the autopsy announcement made to media by the coroner's office was fake.

Which one of them, and we have a new one... that´s the point.

[simplyme]

Ok so propofol can kill.
But is there any proof that Mike took that...?  8-)

Yes propofol kills.  Any anesthetic can kill.  That's one of the reasons surgery is risky.  Some vets don't even want to use it unless absolutely necessary - like for cleaning teeth really well.  And people die from it.  You didn't hear about it before.  Michael made it famous.  People in the medical profession that have easy access to it take - they shoot up and die.  The person who wrote the article above is correct, accurate and anyone that understands blood pressure, meds and all the conditions mentioned such as dehydration will tell you the same thing.  Not only did Dr. Murray not have an ounce of respect for Michael he seems not to regard life.  He's not thinking clearly.  Even if Michael twisted his arm to give him the propofol, Dr. Murray should have at the very least had equipment.  The fact that Dr. Murray doesn't have sense enough to wear a condom tells me he's not thinking clearly.  I mean..how many children to you have to sire before you figure out you can't swing it?  I'll give him this - maybe the condoms were faulty - but all of them?

[simplyme]

So bottom line, correct me if I'm wrong, is that you believe Michael is dead. Correct?

I don't think it's rational to dismiss everything as fake (hoax), but there are lots of things that can be false. I believe that the affidavit was not faked and i have no reason to believe that the autopsy announcement made to media by the coroner's office was fake. These 2 things alone for me are huge hurdles for any hoax theory. Ofcourse, there have been many strange things since MJ's death and many unanswered questions, but i think the confusion, contradiction and mystery has been largely fuelled by a complete lack of information from the LAPD and Coroner. They chose to keep some details private, and many witnesses will obviously not want to speak in public before a trial commences. There are so many medical staff who will give evidence who have not yet spoken. I think people have to be sensible about this.

)

[somekindofsign]

Ok so propofol can kill.
But is there any proof that Mike took that...?  8-)

Yes propofol kills.  Any anesthetic can kill.  That's one of the reasons surgery is risky.  Some vets don't even want to use it unless absolutely necessary - like for cleaning teeth really well.  And people die from it.  You didn't hear about it before.  Michael made it famous.  People in the medical profession that have easy access to it take - they shoot up and die.

Yes, that´s pretty obvious. I was just implying that this only proves preciselly JUST that propofol kills, not that Mike "died" from that, nor even that he took that.

[QuirkyDiana]

Yes, that´s pretty obvious. I was just implying that this only proves preciselly JUST that propofol kills, not that Mike "died" from that, nor even that he took that.

So what would you class as valid proof that MJ took propofol and died from it? I just wanted to know what concrete evidence is there that every official document that has been released  and confirmed by the coroner's office has been purposely falsified.

What sort of evidence (that has not already been released) will convince you that this is what happened. I mean, you are questioning the validity and testimony of a large and diverse group of professional people  who currently work in their said professions, without identifying what exactly is untrue and backing that up with solid proof. I'm not saying don't have an enquiring mind, just that you can't say something is false without proof that something is wrong with it.

[somekindofsign]

No, no QuirkyDiana, sorry, here we´re having crossed conversations. Here I´m trying to say to simplyme that, what I meant up there is that, it just proved propofol kills, and that it´s well known by everyone that anesthetic can kill.

After I said that, you posted the cbs source, which I think is something more "serious", but still proves nothing, is not that the main stream is gospell, less cbs-big-eye as I see it.

It´s not that I don´t believe MJ is dead (nor alive) till I see it with my own eyes, but for me to believe so, things must add up rather more than they do by now. And there are facts that could make me believe he is dead, such as Murray in jail for instance.

[QuirkyDiana]

Pardon me, i hadn't realised that you made the initial comment before the official autopsy/toxicology reports were out. However, now that they are out, would you say that the evidence in there is valid/invalid? If it is invalid, how so?

Murray could still win the case if his lawyers do not present the incriminating evidence properly, or if there is not enough evidence to convict him of said charge. Or if the police contaminated evidence. Does not mean he did not do it, particularly as he admitted to being there and administering. In fact, i am so interested in what is going to be his defence now that he pleaded not guilty. There is so much evidence against him involving negligence that I don't see how he can form a defence, but he obviously thinks he can. An eye-opener.

[the arabian nights]

wasnt mike introduced to the drug before, he would as i understand it look for doctors to provide the drug

klein said it was his chosen drug or something like it -

[the arabian nights]

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Michael Jackson Admits Drug Use in Testimony
Thursday, October 25, 2007  
By Roger Friedman

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 AP


Michael Jackson
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Michael Jackson Admits Drug Use in Testimony

How bad is, or was, Michael Jackson's addiction to prescription medication?

Well, in a deposition Jackson gave last summer, the beleaguered pop star 'fessed up for once about where his head's been at when he signs documents.

The testimony Jackson gave on July 25, 2007, had to do with agreements he signed with former manager Dieter Wiesner.

As usual, Jackson claimed to have forgotten putting his signature on the dotted line.

In the deposition, taken in London, an attorney for Wiesner asks Jackson the key question.

This is what it looks like in the actual transcript, obtained exclusively by this column:

Q Were you impaired by the taking of prescription medications or something else at the time you signed these two documents?
A I could have been.
Q Is that best of recollection, that you signed these while impaired, not knowing what they meant?
A I could maybe say so, but I'm not — I don't remember them.

It's not like Jackson misunderstood the questioning, either. In the same line of examination, the attorney for Wiesner managed to get this in as well:

Q How long in 2003 were you impaired because of the taking of prescription medication?
A I don't know.
Q Was it most of 2003?
A I'm not sure.
Q Did Dr. Farshchian prescribe that medication for you?
A No, it wasn't Farshchian. I think it was a local.

And then there's also this exchange:

Q As of March 31, 2003, were you still impaired because of the taking of prescription medication?
A I could have been.
Q During the period of time you were impaired by the taking of prescription medication, was this an impairment that lasted like all your waking hours, or did it come and go?
A It comes and goes, not all of the waking hours, of course not. Yes.
Q Now, during the period of time you were taking this medication when you weren't impaired, did you ever tell one of your advisors that you were [concerned] about your impairment and they better watch what you were signing during this period of time?

[the arabian nights]

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Jackson was linked to Demerol as far back as 1993, when concert promoters sued him, claiming an addiction to the painkiller caused him to cancel his "Dangerous" tour.

A former financial adviser once claimed the singer went through detox for Demerol in South Korea in 1999, and the drug was among items seized from Jackson

[the arabian nights]

[youtube:16tpeg5p]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Aq2Zd9A77Q[/youtube:16tpeg5p]

[the arabian nights]

klien said mike was a drug addict

[YouTube]http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/posting.php?mode=edit&f=40&p=111230[/YouTube]

[somekindofsign]

Pardon me, i hadn't realised that you made the initial comment before the official autopsy/toxicology reports were out. However, now that they are out, would you say that the evidence in there is valid/invalid? If it is invalid, how so?

Murray could still win the case if his lawyers do not present the incriminating evidence properly, or if there is not enough evidence to convict him of said charge. Or if the police contaminated evidence. Does not mean he did not do it, particularly as he admitted to being there and administering. In fact, i am so interested in what is going to be his defence now that he pleaded not guilty. There is so much evidence against him involving negligence that I don't see how he can form a defence, but he obviously thinks he can. An eye-opener.

But the thing is, correct me if I´m wrong, that we don´t KNOW if any real official autopsy/toxicology reports are out at all. The same for CM admitting anything, no direct source, just news agencies stating so. About him being negligent, I cannot see any proof, maybe signs, but not evidences.

QuirkyDiana, I love to share our opinions, but yours and mine are so far by now. I mean, I still don´t discard Murray being an actor (this is an HOAX site), and I think mass media sources usually lie, or mislead, so understand that to my point of view I can´t see those evidences, which is not the same that I deny him being dead, killed or murdered.

Time will say, and of course this trial is very important for that.

[the arabian nights]

klien saw mike 3 days before he died(?) on 22/06/09

[YouTube]http://michaeljacksonhoaxforum.com/phpbb2/posting.php?mode=reply&f=40&t=4933[/YouTube]

[somekindofsign]

@the arabian nights, wrong link, excuse me...