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This comment is taken from an article I read. It figures. The person is an anaesthetist.

If anyone wants to understand how propofol works, then here is the explanation and this is what probably happened the day MJ died.

Propofol is a drug that not only will stop your breathing if given in large amounts, it will also drop your blood pressure. Smaller amounts of propofol can be given to a patient (depending on the patient's weight) and that will only slow down one's breathing but not stop it. This is called 'conscious sedation', and that is what Conrad Murray tried to do.

Patients who are physically fit such as athletes, dancers,(such as MJ) and people who work out regularly, usually have low blood pressure ( in the low 90s for the top number) and for them it is normal. Also patients with lean body weight/ thin (such as MJ was) also have low blood pressure (in the low 90s). Also when a patient is dehydrated , their blood pressure tends to be low. According to those at the Staples Center that fateful wednesday, MJ had been rehearsing/dancing for 3 hours before the close of the night. He also skipped breakfastt the next morning, yet another reason he was probably dehydrated. Another interesting thing about propofol is that when used in combination with a benzodiazepine, the effect of propofol becomes more pronounced. In other words, a little bit goes a long way. Typically prior to giving propofol,a patient may be given 2 to 5mg of versed(a benzodiazepine ) by IV. MJ got 18mg of benzodiazepines per is attorney's and his own admission to police!

It is also important to note that MJ did not have any heart disease, per the autopsy. His blood pressure though was almost certainly low and given the fact that the effect of propofol is pronounced in the presence of benzodiazepines,means that MJ ,in addition to his breathing being cut off, his blood pressure also bottomed out. But because there wasn't any proper monitoring nor was the doctor properly trained in the use of propofol, MJ died. Dr. Conrad Murray did not know the nuances that one learns when you are familiar with using propofol on a daily basis, in the proper setting; that is why he now has a dead patient.


Now when it comes to resuscitating a patient, EMS worked on him for 42 minutes without much success. That is a bit unusual in a patient with a healthy,strong heart. Infact those are the patients we prefer to resuscutate, the success rate is so high. It is easier to get a patient back from the brink of death if the patient has a healthy heart unless if the patient has been down for a LONG,LONG time. Except in cases of hypothermia, it is near impossible to get a patient back if he has been down for a long time, it wouldn't matter how strong the heart is! That is why after working on MJ for an addditional hour at UCLA they still couldn't revive him.

My colleagues had long suspected that Dr. Murray either fell asleep or walked away from MJ at some point. It did not suprise us when it was later revealed that he had made phone calls for 47 minutes before notifying anyone,(the first to hear there was something wrong was Kai chase, the chef) to call 911. He probably walked away to another part of the house to make phone calls while MJ slept; he probably didn't want disturb him.

All the drugs found in MJ's system were administered by conrad murray. Although MJ had a history of addiction to narcotics, none of that was found in his system. It is physically near impossible for one to administer drugs to themselves through a properly placed iv. MJ had a properly placed iv, that is why his death has been ruled a homicide.

I strongly believe that if Conrad Murray's 'wanton medical negligence' didn't kill Mj here in the US, it would have happened in London. He didn't know what he was doing, he was in way over his head and he did not have proper monitoring. He is not an addiction specialist either. For the record, oxygen saturation monitor is not the only one that is required to monitor a patient in a setting such as this. You also need blood pressure and heart rate monitors, at the very minimum.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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hope

Thank you for the article. The anesthesologist appears to know what he/she is talking about. Although it is hard (if Michael died) to hear what he went through, I'm glad to know more about it and to hear a professional coming out against Murray instead of Michael.  :(
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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MJJ1982

:x Murray...
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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\'Just because it\'s in print, doesn\'t mean it\'s the gospel\'

\'A star can never die. It just turns into a smile and melts back into the cosmic music, the Dance of Life\'
You\'re just another part of me... I love YOU more...

somekindofsign

  • Guest
Ok so propofol can kill.
But is there any proof that Mike took that...?  8-)
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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When i go through the times when i think MJ really is dead, and i think about all of this...  it makes me so sad and also very angry.

It makes no sense... and Dr Murray makes no sense.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Quote from: "somekindofsign"
Ok so propofol can kill.
But is there any proof that Mike took that...?  8-)

Murray admitted in the affidavit that he gave MJ 25mg propofol. Whether he gave more than that, who knows. Maybe the autopsy report will contradict this.

When there is a lack of information (as there currently is) it is easy to find suspicion in everything. But why would an affidavit be false, for example? When Murray walks to court on Monday, will everyone say that has been staged too? Where do you end the disbelief? Some people are going to hit the ground with a hard bump soon - that's what i think. Has anyone thought how many people would have to be involved if this was a hoax? Why would MJ deceive and excite his fans into thinking they were getting a concert, and then end it with a very convincing devastating death? It's getting silly. If there is anything unusual, it's either because people really are strange or corrupt things are really going on. Everything that has happened is possible. People can still walk away free from crimes if the police do not do their job meticulously, if lawyers present cases badly - or if others are just clever, and if there is a genuine lack of evidence. Nothing is perfect, it may take a death like this for people/law to learn lessons and i believe that is what is happening here.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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somekindofsign

  • Guest
Quote
Murray admitted in the affidavit that he gave MJ 25mg propofol.

Sorry, I´m not in the USA. Where can I find a source that confirms the fact that he admitted that?
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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*

Jennie

Quote from: "QuirkyDiana"
Quote from: "somekindofsign"
Ok so propofol can kill.
But is there any proof that Mike took that...?  8-)

Murray admitted in the affidavit that he gave MJ 25mg propofol. Whether he gave more than that, who knows. Maybe the autopsy report will contradict this.

When there is a lack of information (as there currently is) it is easy to find suspicion in everything. But why would an affidavit be false, for example? When Murray walks to court on Monday, will everyone say that has been staged too? Where do you end the disbelief? Some people are going to hit the ground with a hard bump soon - that's what i think. Has anyone thought how many people would have to be involved if this was a hoax? Why would MJ deceive and excite his fans into thinking they were getting a concert, and then end it with a very convincing devastating death? It's getting silly. If there is anything unusual, it's either because people really are strange or corrupt things are really going on. Everything that has happened is possible. People can still walk away free from crimes if the police do not do their job meticulously, if lawyers present cases badly - or if others are just clever, and if there is a genuine lack of evidence. Nothing is perfect, it may take a death like this for people/law to learn lessons and i believe that is what is happening here.

I thought CNN had said last week that the autopsy results were fake.... or wait a minute, or was it that there is still no toxicolagy report. There's a thread on it somewhere in the forum. :?

I think at this point we really need to rely a little less or maybe not at all on what has been said through the media in any way,type or form. We are being brain washed to see things the way they want us to. We need to take a step back IMO and ask ourselves the questions we want answered and how we can answer them without relying entirely on the media. I realize this could be a difficult thing to do but I think it's worth a try.
Last Edit: February 06, 2010, 04:03:32 PM by Jennie
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Quote from: "Jennie"
Quote from: "QuirkyDiana"
Quote from: "somekindofsign"
Ok so propofol can kill.
But is there any proof that Mike took that...?  8-)

Murray admitted in the affidavit that he gave MJ 25mg propofol. Whether he gave more than that, who knows. Maybe the autopsy report will contradict this.

When there is a lack of information (as there currently is) it is easy to find suspicion in everything. But why would an affidavit be false, for example? When Murray walks to court on Monday, will everyone say that has been staged too? Where do you end the disbelief? Some people are going to hit the ground with a hard bump soon - that's what i think. Has anyone thought how many people would have to be involved if this was a hoax? Why would MJ deceive and excite his fans into thinking they were getting a concert, and then end it with a very convincing devastating death? It's getting silly. If there is anything unusual, it's either because people really are strange or corrupt things are really going on. Everything that has happened is possible. People can still walk away free from crimes if the police do not do their job meticulously, if lawyers present cases badly - or if others are just clever, and if there is a genuine lack of evidence. Nothing is perfect, it may take a death like this for people/law to learn lessons and i believe that is what is happening here.

I thought CNN had said last week that the autopsy results were fake.... or wait a minute, or was it that there is still no toxicolagy report. There's a thread on it somewhere in the forum. :?


Autopsy reports ARE fake... ive been saying this since day one and no one listens to little old me.

Remember when they leaked the autopsy reports for Brittany Murphy?  The Coroner IMMEDIATELY issued a statement saying he was launching an investigation into how the info got leaked.

In MJs case.. the Coroner denied these (two) autopsy claims and never admitted that they were real or that he was launching an investigation into the leak.... he didnt because they were FALSE.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Jennie

Quote from: "DancingTheDream"
Quote from: "Jennie"
Quote from: "QuirkyDiana"
Quote from: "somekindofsign"
Ok so propofol can kill.
But is there any proof that Mike took that...?  8-)

Murray admitted in the affidavit that he gave MJ 25mg propofol. Whether he gave more than that, who knows. Maybe the autopsy report will contradict this.

When there is a lack of information (as there currently is) it is easy to find suspicion in everything. But why would an affidavit be false, for example? When Murray walks to court on Monday, will everyone say that has been staged too? Where do you end the disbelief? Some people are going to hit the ground with a hard bump soon - that's what i think. Has anyone thought how many people would have to be involved if this was a hoax? Why would MJ deceive and excite his fans into thinking they were getting a concert, and then end it with a very convincing devastating death? It's getting silly. If there is anything unusual, it's either because people really are strange or corrupt things are really going on. Everything that has happened is possible. People can still walk away free from crimes if the police do not do their job meticulously, if lawyers present cases badly - or if others are just clever, and if there is a genuine lack of evidence. Nothing is perfect, it may take a death like this for people/law to learn lessons and i believe that is what is happening here.

I thought CNN had said last week that the autopsy results were fake.... or wait a minute, or was it that there is still no toxicolagy report. There's a thread on it somewhere in the forum. :?


Autopsy reports ARE fake... ive been saying this since day one and no one listens to little old me.

Remember when they leaked the autopsy reports for Brittany Murphy?  The Coroner IMMEDIATELY issued a statement saying he was launching an investigation into how the info got leaked.

In MJs case.. the Coroner denied these (two) autopsy claims and never admitted that they were real or that he was launching an investigation into the leak.... he didnt because they were FALSE.

Thank your for clearing it up for me. :)  Right now we really have a big pile of things that have been said but I think we need to go through the pile and throw out once and for all what is false in that pile. Also maybe make 2 piles, 1 for true beyond the shadow of a doubt info and 1 for the shaddy stuff we cant prove to be false or true and is odd. It would help us lots to do so I am sure.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Here is the affidavit. It's on the 3rd page.
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These 2 articles give good summaries of the affidavit.
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Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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With the autopsy report....there have been a lot of 'facts' released in the media. The coroner has always said they will release the full report in due course, and that the facts come from them and nobody else. This does not somehow mean that there was no autopsy. They confirmed the completion of the autopsy in front of cameras, they just haven't released the full details yet.

Someone apparently contacted the coroner about this and the coroner said, 'The body was that of Michael Jackson. And by the way, we have released nothing officially, so everything out there in the blogosphere is conjecture or otherwise unsubstantiated.'

LAPD are in possession of all the facts on the autopsy. Some of this info can be gleaned in the affidavit. LAPD are holding back the autopsy until they complete investigations. So when people say that the autopsy reports are fake - yes, the info may be false reporting, but the autopsy itself is not fake.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Jennie

Quote from: "QuirkyDiana"
With the autopsy report....there have been a lot of 'facts' released in the media. The coroner has always said they will release the full report in due course, and that the facts come from them and nobody else. This does not somehow mean that there was no autopsy. They confirmed the completion of the autopsy in front of cameras, they just haven't released the full details yet.

Someone apparently contacted the coroner about this and the coroner said, 'The body was that of Michael Jackson. And by the way, we have released nothing officially, so everything out there in the blogosphere is conjecture or otherwise unsubstantiated.'

LAPD are in possession of all the facts on the autopsy. Some of this info can be gleaned in the affidavit. LAPD are holding back the autopsy until they complete investigations. So when people say that the autopsy reports are fake - yes, the info may be false reporting, but the autopsy itself is not fake.

So bottom line, correct me if I'm wrong, is that you believe Michael is dead. Correct?
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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somekindofsign

  • Guest
Quote from: "QuirkyDiana"
Here is the affidavit. It's on the 3rd page.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

These 2 articles give good summaries of the affidavit.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Thank you very much for the sources.
I´ll take my time to read them... this is all going so fast now!
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Quote from: "Jennie"
So bottom line, correct me if I'm wrong, is that you believe Michael is dead. Correct?

I don't think it's rational to dismiss everything as fake (hoax), but there are lots of things that can be false. I believe that the affidavit was not faked and i have no reason to believe that the autopsy announcement made to media by the coroner's office was fake. These 2 things alone for me are huge hurdles for any hoax theory. Ofcourse, there have been many strange things since MJ's death and many unanswered questions, but i think the confusion, contradiction and mystery has been largely fuelled by a complete lack of information from the LAPD and Coroner. They chose to keep some details private, and many witnesses will obviously not want to speak in public before a trial commences. There are so many medical staff who will give evidence who have not yet spoken. I think people have to be sensible about this.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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