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DA in no hurry to give defence their evidence
February 20, 2010, 04:52:59 PM
Conrad Murray's legal team are struggling to compile their defense for their client, as they are still awaiting the full evidence and discovery relating to the case. One of Murray's attorney's, Michael Flanagan, even went so far as to say the D.A's office are being "a little bit secretive" with the information.

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So i guess there's a lot more evidence to come yet, discounting the autopsy and affidavit which is already public. Can't wait. Murray's legal team seem worried.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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Re: DA in no hurry to give defence their evidence
February 20, 2010, 04:56:31 PM
:lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

What...   they are struggling with their defense???   :lol:
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the arabian nights

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Re: DA in no hurry to give defence their evidence
February 20, 2010, 06:19:34 PM
Quote from: "QuirkyDiana"
Conrad Murray's legal team are struggling to compile their defense for their client, as they are still awaiting the full evidence and discovery relating to the case. One of Murray's attorney's, Michael Flanagan, even went so far as to say the D.A's office are being "a little bit secretive" with the information.

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So i guess there's a lot more evidence to come yet, discounting the autopsy and affidavit which is already public. Can't wait. Murray's legal team seem worried.


this is very interesting they should have it - i dont know if there are time constraints
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Re: DA in no hurry to give defence their evidence
February 20, 2010, 07:40:36 PM
Quote from: "DancingTheDream"
:lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

What...   they are struggling with their defense???   :lol:

sure, murray's lawyer can only get him off if he can maintain 'reasonable doubt' within the jury, so he can walk off. whatever is on that tape, he's gonna twist and turn it into murray's favor.

this says it all: 'there is no information that leads to the conclusion that murray was anywhere else but at the bedside.' and there is no witness, no proof, no nothing to prove the opposite. that's even not saying anything but creating reasonable doubt within the jury. that will be their strategy and that's why they have to have the tapes, so they can prepare that step by step with the questions already in mind that are going to be asked. and the correct answers, of course.

'that's why we do rehearsals'  :lol:
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just because it\'s in print, doesn\'t mean it\'s the gospel - mj 2003

i have incredible disguises, i can fool my own mother - mj 1988

...details at eleven...

wear something green!

proud member of the army of l.o.v.e!

Re: DA in no hurry to give defence their evidence
February 20, 2010, 08:58:04 PM
Well, the timeline issue has yet to be played out. However, for me, this is not the only issue that can convict Murray of criminal negligence - involuntary manslaughter. Conrad doesn't just need to be at the bedside of MJ he needs to have the right equipment with him if something goes wrong with that medication, particularly propofol! Even if Murray was there the whole time, if he hadn't got the right monitoring or rescue equipment he would not be able to help MJ in difficulty. It's worth noting that in deep sedation/anaesthesia, the airway can collapse. So it doesn't matter how hard you do mouth-to-mouth, the air ain't getting in to the lungs. Which is why you intubate. Except Murray didn't intubate. According to the Investigator's report in the autopsy report, Paramedics intubated. Another thing is in a situation like that, the person in distress needs emergency medical support - at the hospital. You wouldn't waste time doing 20 mins or so of cpr and then call 911. 911 is needed asap. There is no reversal agent for propofol.

The following parameters should be monitored for all patients receiving propofol: pulse oximetry, blood pressure, and electrocardiography and heart rate. Appropriate resuscitation equipment should be readily available for airway management. It is important to note that propofol may cause vasodilation and myocardial depression independent of hypoxia and hypoventilation. While technology exists for capnography, the current literature does not support such a routine, because no change in clinical outcomes has been documented (2).     You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
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Re: DA in no hurry to give defence their evidence
February 20, 2010, 09:25:56 PM
Quote from: "QuirkyDiana"
Well, the timeline issue has yet to be played out. However, for me, this is not the only issue that can convict Murray of criminal negligence - involuntary manslaughter. Conrad doesn't just need to be at the bedside of MJ he needs to have the right equipment with him if something goes wrong with that medication, particularly propofol! Even if Murray was there the whole time, if he hadn't got the right monitoring or rescue equipment he would not be able to help MJ in difficulty. It's worth noting that in deep sedation/anaesthesia, the airway can collapse. So it doesn't matter how hard you do mouth-to-mouth, the air ain't getting in to the lungs. Which is why you intubate. Except Murray didn't intubate. According to the Investigator's report in the autopsy report, Paramedics intubated. Another thing is in a situation like that, the person in distress needs emergency medical support - at the hospital. You wouldn't waste time doing 20 mins or so of cpr and then call 911. 911 is needed asap. There is no reversal agent for propofol.

The following parameters should be monitored for all patients receiving propofol: pulse oximetry, blood pressure, and electrocardiography and heart rate. Appropriate resuscitation equipment should be readily available for airway management. It is important to note that propofol may cause vasodilation and myocardial depression independent of hypoxia and hypoventilation. While technology exists for capnography, the current literature does not support such a routine, because no change in clinical outcomes has been documented (2).     You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login


well, i guess if they're going to say 'not guilty', it can only be proven by revealing a hoax, right? otherwise murray should get in major trouble here. and i didn't see a 'malpractice' charge yet, either, since you mention all the equipment that should have been there. if he was administering propofol regularly (like for weeks) under those circumstances, there should definitely be a malpractice charge cuz he had at least that much time to inform himself about the drug if he didn't know anything about it. a doctor has the duty of knowing exactly what he is giving his patient, why and most importantly: how to administer. klein said on tmz, that murray allegedly gave mj propofol as an im-injection, which is directly into a muscle (mostly buttocks), which is totally unthinkable, since propofol is iv only, it has to go in dripping, not as one injection. i am seriously thinking that murray cannot be that dumb.

so the only solution to get him off the hook totally is really (apart from 'reasonable doubt'): nothing was administered, nobody died, the autopsy report is fake (meaning no autopsy actually happened) and all the evidence, footage, tapes, whatever, was planted to cover up the grandest hoax in history.

otherwise: see you in 4 years, murray... :mrgreen:
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just because it\'s in print, doesn\'t mean it\'s the gospel - mj 2003

i have incredible disguises, i can fool my own mother - mj 1988

...details at eleven...

wear something green!

proud member of the army of l.o.v.e!

the arabian nights

  • Guest
Re: DA in no hurry to give defence their evidence
February 21, 2010, 04:17:24 AM
Quote from: "tabloidburn"
Quote from: "DancingTheDream"
:lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

What...   they are struggling with their defense???   :lol:

sure, murray's lawyer can only get him off if he can maintain 'reasonable doubt' within the jury, so he can walk off. whatever is on that tape, he's gonna twist and turn it into murray's favor.

this says it all: 'there is no information that leads to the conclusion that murray was anywhere else but at the bedside.' and there is no witness, no proof, no nothing to prove the opposite. that's even not saying anything but creating reasonable doubt within the jury. that will be their strategy and that's why they have to have the tapes, so they can prepare that step by step with the questions already in mind that are going to be asked. and the correct answers, of course.

'that's why we do rehearsals'  :lol:

i dont know about the US, you may need to google it, but it may be "beyond reasonable doubt" a higher threshold then in civil cases - but i dont know anything about the US criminal thresholds
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Re: DA in no hurry to give defence their evidence
February 21, 2010, 04:35:32 AM
Quote from: "the arabian nights"
Quote from: "tabloidburn"
Quote from: "DancingTheDream"
:lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

What...   they are struggling with their defense???   :lol:

sure, murray's lawyer can only get him off if he can maintain 'reasonable doubt' within the jury, so he can walk off. whatever is on that tape, he's gonna twist and turn it into murray's favor.

this says it all: 'there is no information that leads to the conclusion that murray was anywhere else but at the bedside.' and there is no witness, no proof, no nothing to prove the opposite. that's even not saying anything but creating reasonable doubt within the jury. that will be their strategy and that's why they have to have the tapes, so they can prepare that step by step with the questions already in mind that are going to be asked. and the correct answers, of course.

'that's why we do rehearsals'  :lol:

i dont know about the US, you may need to google it, but it may be "beyond reasonable doubt" a higher threshold then in civil cases - but i dont know anything about the US criminal thresholds


if i'm not mistaken, the jury has to come to a unanimous decision first to have the judge come to a verdict. if there is only one saying 'not guilty' and eleven say 'guilty' they will have to rediscuss until they all come to the same conclusion. the lawyer only needs that one grain of doubt to keep murray out of jail. that part is called 'buying time', i think...
 
i don't live in the states either but i have american family and friends (most of them look at me like i'm nuts, thinking hoax and all...). i asked if it were enough to create reasonable doubt in this case, they all said yes. it don't matter if it's high profile or what.

and there is still no malpractice/ negligence charge yet, as far as i know...and not one valid proof for anything other than what murray says.
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just because it\'s in print, doesn\'t mean it\'s the gospel - mj 2003

i have incredible disguises, i can fool my own mother - mj 1988

...details at eleven...

wear something green!

proud member of the army of l.o.v.e!

the arabian nights

  • Guest
Re: DA in no hurry to give defence their evidence
February 21, 2010, 04:56:37 AM
Quote from: "tabloidburn"
Quote from: "the arabian nights"
Quote from: "tabloidburn"
Quote from: "DancingTheDream"
:lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

What...   they are struggling with their defense???   :lol:

sure, murray's lawyer can only get him off if he can maintain 'reasonable doubt' within the jury, so he can walk off. whatever is on that tape, he's gonna twist and turn it into murray's favor.

this says it all: 'there is no information that leads to the conclusion that murray was anywhere else but at the bedside.' and there is no witness, no proof, no nothing to prove the opposite. that's even not saying anything but creating reasonable doubt within the jury. that will be their strategy and that's why they have to have the tapes, so they can prepare that step by step with the questions already in mind that are going to be asked. and the correct answers, of course.

'that's why we do rehearsals'  :lol:

i dont know about the US, you may need to google it, but it may be "beyond reasonable doubt" a higher threshold then in civil cases - but i dont know anything about the US criminal thresholds


if i'm not mistaken, the jury has to come to a unanimous decision first to have the judge come to a verdict. if there is only one saying 'not guilty' and eleven say 'guilty' they will have to rediscuss until they all come to the same conclusion. the lawyer only needs that one grain of doubt to keep murray out of jail. that part is called 'buying time', i think...
 
i don't live in the states either but i have american family and friends (most of them look at me like i'm nuts, thinking hoax and all...). i asked if it were enough to create reasonable doubt in this case, they all said yes. it don't matter if it's high profile or what.

and there is still no malpractice/ negligence charge yet, as far as i know...and not one valid proof for anything other than what murray says.

i find it strange that he has not been suspended from working until the conclusion of this criminal matter - why is this?
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Re: DA in no hurry to give defence their evidence
February 21, 2010, 07:10:25 AM
Quote from: "tabloidburn"
Quote from: "the arabian nights"
Quote from: "tabloidburn"
Quote from: "DancingTheDream"
:lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

What...   they are struggling with their defense???   :lol:

sure, murray's lawyer can only get him off if he can maintain 'reasonable doubt' within the jury, so he can walk off. whatever is on that tape, he's gonna twist and turn it into murray's favor.

this says it all: 'there is no information that leads to the conclusion that murray was anywhere else but at the bedside.' and there is no witness, no proof, no nothing to prove the opposite. that's even not saying anything but creating reasonable doubt within the jury. that will be their strategy and that's why they have to have the tapes, so they can prepare that step by step with the questions already in mind that are going to be asked. and the correct answers, of course.

'that's why we do rehearsals'  :lol:

i dont know about the US, you may need to google it, but it may be "beyond reasonable doubt" a higher threshold then in civil cases - but i dont know anything about the US criminal thresholds


if i'm not mistaken, the jury has to come to a unanimous decision first to have the judge come to a verdict. if there is only one saying 'not guilty' and eleven say 'guilty' they will have to rediscuss until they all come to the same conclusion. the lawyer only needs that one grain of doubt to keep murray out of jail. that part is called 'buying time', i think...
 
i don't live in the states either but i have american family and friends (most of them look at me like i'm nuts, thinking hoax and all...). i asked if it were enough to create reasonable doubt in this case, they all said yes. it don't matter if it's high profile or what.

and there is still no malpractice/ negligence charge yet, as far as i know...and not one valid proof for anything other than what murray says.

Your right but I don't think it has to be complete, because individual jurors can actually be polled after a decision is made. In other words I believe you can go forward for a unanimous vote even with one that doesn't believe it.  I THINK that is the way that works. But we also have what is called a "hung jury" which means they just can't make up their mind.

Civil suits are easier to prove. Dr Murray, for instance would not have to be found guilty in a criminal case to be sued successfully by the family for wrongful death. For an example of it in the biggest news I urge to read  People VS Orenthal James Simpson case and then Goldman VS Orenthal James Simpson.
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A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is just putting on its shoes.

Mark Twain

Re: DA in no hurry to give defence their evidence
February 21, 2010, 07:53:59 AM
Quote from: "tabloidburn"
Quote from: "QuirkyDiana"
Well, the timeline issue has yet to be played out. However, for me, this is not the only issue that can convict Murray of criminal negligence - involuntary manslaughter. Conrad doesn't just need to be at the bedside of MJ he needs to have the right equipment with him if something goes wrong with that medication, particularly propofol! Even if Murray was there the whole time, if he hadn't got the right monitoring or rescue equipment he would not be able to help MJ in difficulty. It's worth noting that in deep sedation/anaesthesia, the airway can collapse. So it doesn't matter how hard you do mouth-to-mouth, the air ain't getting in to the lungs. Which is why you intubate. Except Murray didn't intubate. According to the Investigator's report in the autopsy report, Paramedics intubated. Another thing is in a situation like that, the person in distress needs emergency medical support - at the hospital. You wouldn't waste time doing 20 mins or so of cpr and then call 911. 911 is needed asap. There is no reversal agent for propofol.

The following parameters should be monitored for all patients receiving propofol: pulse oximetry, blood pressure, and electrocardiography and heart rate. Appropriate resuscitation equipment should be readily available for airway management. It is important to note that propofol may cause vasodilation and myocardial depression independent of hypoxia and hypoventilation. While technology exists for capnography, the current literature does not support such a routine, because no change in clinical outcomes has been documented (2).     You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login


well, i guess if they're going to say 'not guilty', it can only be proven by revealing a hoax, right? otherwise murray should get in major trouble here. and i didn't see a 'malpractice' charge yet, either, since you mention all the equipment that should have been there. if he was administering propofol regularly (like for weeks) under those circumstances, there should definitely be a malpractice charge cuz he had at least that much time to inform himself about the drug if he didn't know anything about it. a doctor has the duty of knowing exactly what he is giving his patient, why and most importantly: how to administer. klein said on tmz, that murray allegedly gave mj propofol as an im-injection, which is directly into a muscle (mostly buttocks), which is totally unthinkable, since propofol is iv only, it has to go in dripping, not as one injection. i am seriously thinking that murray cannot be that dumb.

so the only solution to get him off the hook totally is really (apart from 'reasonable doubt'): nothing was administered, nobody died, the autopsy report is fake (meaning no autopsy actually happened) and all the evidence, footage, tapes, whatever, was planted to cover up the grandest hoax in history.

otherwise: see you in 4 years, murray... :mrgreen:



MICHAEL DID SAY "WEVE ONLY GOT 4 YRS TO GET IT RIGHT" HAHAHA
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Re: DA in no hurry to give defence their evidence
February 21, 2010, 07:57:23 AM
Quote from: "the arabian nights"
Quote from: "tabloidburn"
Quote from: "the arabian nights"
Quote from: "tabloidburn"
Quote from: "DancingTheDream"
:lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

What...   they are struggling with their defense???   :lol:

sure, murray's lawyer can only get him off if he can maintain 'reasonable doubt' within the jury, so he can walk off. whatever is on that tape, he's gonna twist and turn it into murray's favor.

this says it all: 'there is no information that leads to the conclusion that murray was anywhere else but at the bedside.' and there is no witness, no proof, no nothing to prove the opposite. that's even not saying anything but creating reasonable doubt within the jury. that will be their strategy and that's why they have to have the tapes, so they can prepare that step by step with the questions already in mind that are going to be asked. and the correct answers, of course.

'that's why we do rehearsals'  :lol:

i dont know about the US, you may need to google it, but it may be "beyond reasonable doubt" a higher threshold then in civil cases - but i dont know anything about the US criminal thresholds


if i'm not mistaken, the jury has to come to a unanimous decision first to have the judge come to a verdict. if there is only one saying 'not guilty' and eleven say 'guilty' they will have to rediscuss until they all come to the same conclusion. the lawyer only needs that one grain of doubt to keep murray out of jail. that part is called 'buying time', i think...
 
i don't live in the states either but i have american family and friends (most of them look at me like i'm nuts, thinking hoax and all...). i asked if it were enough to create reasonable doubt in this case, they all said yes. it don't matter if it's high profile or what.

and there is still no malpractice/ negligence charge yet, as far as i know...and not one valid proof for anything other than what murray says.

i find it strange that he has not been suspended from working until the conclusion of this criminal matter - why is this?


I KNOW I DONT GET IT EITHER....I MEAN PPL R KINDA MAD I WOULD B TERRIFIED IF  I WERE HIM,SOMEONE COULD JUST WALK IN AND SHOOT HIM! PLUS I WOULDNT WANT A DR THAT WAS AS STUPID AS HIM ..
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Re: DA in no hurry to give defence their evidence
February 21, 2010, 08:02:30 AM
Quote from: "mirandacnc"
Quote from: "tabloidburn"
Quote from: "QuirkyDiana"
Well, the timeline issue has yet to be played out. However, for me, this is not the only issue that can convict Murray of criminal negligence - involuntary manslaughter. Conrad doesn't just need to be at the bedside of MJ he needs to have the right equipment with him if something goes wrong with that medication, particularly propofol! Even if Murray was there the whole time, if he hadn't got the right monitoring or rescue equipment he would not be able to help MJ in difficulty. It's worth noting that in deep sedation/anaesthesia, the airway can collapse. So it doesn't matter how hard you do mouth-to-mouth, the air ain't getting in to the lungs. Which is why you intubate. Except Murray didn't intubate. According to the Investigator's report in the autopsy report, Paramedics intubated. Another thing is in a situation like that, the person in distress needs emergency medical support - at the hospital. You wouldn't waste time doing 20 mins or so of cpr and then call 911. 911 is needed asap. There is no reversal agent for propofol.

The following parameters should be monitored for all patients receiving propofol: pulse oximetry, blood pressure, and electrocardiography and heart rate. Appropriate resuscitation equipment should be readily available for airway management. It is important to note that propofol may cause vasodilation and myocardial depression independent of hypoxia and hypoventilation. While technology exists for capnography, the current literature does not support such a routine, because no change in clinical outcomes has been documented (2).     You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login


well, i guess if they're going to say 'not guilty', it can only be proven by revealing a hoax, right? otherwise murray should get in major trouble here. and i didn't see a 'malpractice' charge yet, either, since you mention all the equipment that should have been there. if he was administering propofol regularly (like for weeks) under those circumstances, there should definitely be a malpractice charge cuz he had at least that much time to inform himself about the drug if he didn't know anything about it. a doctor has the duty of knowing exactly what he is giving his patient, why and most importantly: how to administer. klein said on tmz, that murray allegedly gave mj propofol as an im-injection, which is directly into a muscle (mostly buttocks), which is totally unthinkable, since propofol is iv only, it has to go in dripping, not as one injection. i am seriously thinking that murray cannot be that dumb.

so the only solution to get him off the hook totally is really (apart from 'reasonable doubt'): nothing was administered, nobody died, the autopsy report is fake (meaning no autopsy actually happened) and all the evidence, footage, tapes, whatever, was planted to cover up the grandest hoax in history.

otherwise: see you in 4 years, murray... :mrgreen:



MICHAEL DID SAY "WEVE ONLY GOT 4 YRS TO GET IT RIGHT" HAHAHA

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol: oh my, there are just too many clues, are there?  :mrgreen:
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just because it\'s in print, doesn\'t mean it\'s the gospel - mj 2003

i have incredible disguises, i can fool my own mother - mj 1988

...details at eleven...

wear something green!

proud member of the army of l.o.v.e!

the arabian nights

  • Guest
Re: DA in no hurry to give defence their evidence
February 21, 2010, 08:22:13 AM
to the above posters

making the connection between the max sentence length and the movie is genius.

i had not bought the enviroment argument made by some, then i thought that it had something to do with obama's length of office (like i know anything about that -no no). but this seems relevant. in the TII movie mj made a reference  to 4 years - but its out of context because we dont know what he is taking about - question is, is it this?

great food for thought

with regard to the lack of detail from the people(DA office) to the defence this is interesting - they seemed pushed into filing their case, prompting CM's camp to say they would turn up at court.

i would have thought and i know nothing of the state regulation of the medical profession, but i would have thought that they would have suspended CM, until after the conclusion of the case. it was left to the judge to put conditions on his practice. is this normal i do not know?

or is this the presumption of innocent until proved guilty????

But if the evidence is weak - which it seems it points us hoaxers to one direction?
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Re: DA in no hurry to give defence their evidence
February 21, 2010, 01:11:07 PM
Without getting really off topic here, and i'm sure there is a thread already discussing it, but why would you sell all those tickets and then have to refund them all if you knew in advance that you were not going to do any concerts? Also, why would you try and send a man to prison if it was all just to tell a hypothetical story about corruption. If it's to prove a point morally, that people/establishment can be unjust why does Murray implicate himself at all (i gave propofol in a home setting/it's not recommended for insomnia), if he is supposed to be the innocent party? What he admitted to doing is very blatantly wrong. There is little to contend there? If it's a story to escape, are we to believe that the court proceedings are totally false? There is only so much pretense and fakery that is reasonable before it descends into irrationality, never mind such theories being built on no tangible proof. Is there not a teeny weeny possibility that what's going on is real? Not meant to offend, just food for thought ;)
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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