@@@ TimeLine Issue @@@ Explain this, Anyone, Anyone??

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Offline badkolo

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@@@ TimeLine Issue @@@ Explain this, Anyone, Anyone??

  • on: February 26, 2010, 08:42:47 AM
Im having an issue with the timeline, as you can clearly see there is something that doesnt make sense.
We are all aware of michaels schedule and the time he would would normally wake up and go have breakfast with his kids.
Now it has been said michael was suppose to either do more rehearsels that day or he was suppose to be working in one capacity or another.

well lets take a closer look at this so called timeline.
]I believe they said he arrived home at 12:30 am, I also have heard 1:00am, now he gets home and does one of 2 things depending on the time he arrived home. If he arrived at 12:30am then he could have seen his kids if they are awake at that time, or he did whatever michael does and then decided to go to sleep.

Or he arrived at 1 am and basicaly got undressed and  tried to go to sleep.
Now my issue starts right at the point of the time he arrives home and the first administered drug(valium pill). Did michael try to sleep first, if so then it couldnt be at 1:30 am becuase thats when he recieves the drug, dr murray said he gave him the valium BECUASE MICHAEL COULDNT SLEEP, well when did he go to sleep??.

Now lets forget that for a second and lets look closer at the time line and the fact that until 10:40 am michael didnt sleep according to the timeline. You can see in the photo at 1:30 he took a valium becuase he couldnt sleep(ok) then 30 minutes later he couldnt sleep so murray gave him lorazepam iv, then 1 hour later with no sleep to be had michael gets midazolam at 3am, while counting sheep and shaking his head he still couldnt sleep so at 5am murray injects him with lorazepam, but obviously that didnt help at all becuase he was awake and couldnt sleep and at 7:30am he recieved more midazolam just so he can get some shut eye because he hasnt slep yet and guess what??

HE STILL DOESNT GET ANY SLEEP becuase at 10:40 am murray finally gives in after 9hours of watching michael not sleep, the same michael who has to work in the afternoon, he finally decided to give michael the drug that michael fiens for so much, so much so that he called everyone form the nurse to chopra to god knows who to get it, but on this night, the night of all nights, he waits until 9 hours after struggling all night to get his propofol to get some sleep AND ALL AT 10:40AM

THATS 10 MINTUES PASS THETIME MICHAEL NORMALLY WAKES UP ACCORDING TO EVERYONE AROUND HIM.

SO WHAT IM CONFUSED ABOUT IS THIS, IF HE FINALLY FELL ASLEEP AT 10:40 AM,
WHEN WAS HE GOING TO GET UP TO GO TO WORK OR BE WITH HIS KIDS OR GET TO WORK, 8 HOURS LATER ?? SINCE HE DIDNT SLEEP ALL NIGHT AND WAS SUFFERING ALL NIGHT YOU WOULD THING THAT AFTER FALLLING ASLEEP AT 10:40 THAT HE WOULD GET AT LEAST 6 TO 8 HOURS OF SLEEP RIGHT.

so are we to believe that michael was going to get up at 7pm to go to work.???
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline lisap27

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ITS ALL MY ARSE!!

he had enough stuff in him to knock out an elephant, yet he's still having stuff administered at gone 10.30am when his meetings started at 2pm as his choreographer and vocal coach said one meeting was at 2pm then one at 4pm

this is niggleing away at me, i'm glad you brought this up!!
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Offline THE JACKSONOLOGIST

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Kolo,

Great point!!

Ive mentioned the following before during the course of 8 months, but you know what Occams Razor is right? In case you or others dont know what it is, its a line of reasoning that says the simplest answer is the correct one.

For example: Crop Circles. some people believe they are formed by UFO's landing in wheat fields, others do not believe it.
So..........since we do not have ANY eveidence of a ufo actually landing on earth and flattening the wheat fields...no wierd chemicals, no wierd UFO droppings whatsoever, then Occams Razor would come into play here.........that Crop Circle are NOT made by ufo's but made by man.

So how does Occams Razor fit into this theory about the timeline the drugs were given?

See if you can figure it out...............Remember kids, the simplest line of reasoning would most likely be the correct one.

Again great post kolo!!!
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the arabian nights

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Offline CC

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BADKOLO
you really make a point here, we are talking a lot of little things in this eight months, but this is a "litlle/huge" one.
 can´t believe that michael do that for himself, with the kids at the house. if he really can´t sleep all night long i think that at 10:30 he maybe have breakfast with the kids and don´t go to rehearsal and take a nap... ;)
btw: i have a video (bad quality one) that show one person who looks like MJ when the ambulance left the house that day but i can´t found it on YT and I don´t know how to upload can someone help me???
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_EarthSonG_

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[quote="
but i wonder why they did not look at other things

- warm meal
- warm bath or show
- shoulder, back or foot rub
- walm milk
- a bit of wine
- relaxing music
- watching an old movie[/quote]


hummm maybe bc he sleep very well hahahaha and this is all FAKE  :D
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Offline THE JACKSONOLOGIST

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Quote from: "_EarthSonG_"
[quote="
but i wonder why they did not look at other things

- warm meal
- warm bath or show
- shoulder, back or foot rub
- walm milk
- a bit of wine
- relaxing music
- watching an old movie


hummm maybe bc he sleep very well hahahaha and this is all FAKE  :D[/quote]


I do think he had some issues sleeping cus he has said it himself. HOWEVER, I do not beleive he had sleeping issues as bad as they say he did.
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Offline virgo75

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Quote from: "THE JACKSONOLOGIST"
UFO droppings

 :lol:


Sorry, that was too funny.


But, I do agree that the timeline is WAY off!
Not just his "medication" timeline, but the timeline of what happened after Dr. Murray "found" Michael.
He had to change his story after the phone call to the patient was released.
It's one thing to leave the room because you received a phone call you couldn't miss, but why would you leave a patient you're supposed to monitor - who could DIE if you don't monitor them - to CALL a patient to tell him his test/diagnostics were ok?   :roll:
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Offline Raven

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There is another inconsistency with the timeline. Acording to the AR, Michael called Murray at approx 1:00 am with complaints that he could not sleep and felt dehydrated. At approximately 1:10 Murray then supposedly arrived at the MJJ residence.

Here's the inconsistency...Fans saw Michael leave Staples Center at 1:30 am.

How could he have complained not being able to sleep if he was still at the Staples Center when he supposedly made that call?

Timeline here
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Offline mjboogie

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TImeline is B>S> !! A dead giveaway for the HOAx!!! MJ is alive :)
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Offline becca26

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Quote from: "the arabian nights"
maybe mike just ran his own schedule - he determined what happened in his life, if he could make it he did if not pp waited.

if he could not sleep he would not be fit to work - so sleep was a priorty

but i wonder why they did not look at other things

- warm meal
- warm bath or show
- shoulder, back or foot rub
- walm milk
- a bit of wine
- relaxing music
- watching an old movie

Yes MJ like to have a glass of wine, I had one last night as passed out lol this def does the job plus working out w the hulk in the day that while help you sleep also. ;)
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Offline michaelsupporter

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I agree that there are many inconsistencies in the timeline because, plain and simple, it is made up.  MJ is alive. For all we know, he came home from the rehearsals, had a few words with his children and prepared for his departure. I am certain he left in the early hours of that morning. Hence, not eating with the children etc.  I find it very odd that the cook is not aware of more than she is letting on. Nobody would be so focused on the children that they wouldn't really be curious to know where/how Michael is.  Her cool as a cucumber attitude about this doesn't add up. Most people would live to see that man and almost become anxious when he didn't show up at his usual time. There is more to this story, for certain. And, may I ask, what has come of this cook? It is like she has fallen from the face of this planet.

Additionally, I am certain that MJ is a highly intelligent being who demonstrates deep spirituality and a curiosity for alternative methods of healing. I do believe that MJ would employ other means (besides propofol) to elicit sleep-----whether it be warm milk, a soak in the tub, massage, acupuncture, meditation etc.  He is very smart and very educated to modern means of medicine and knows what story will "work" for the hoax. It is quite convincing, isn't it??!?!?!?
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Offline bec

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And don't forget the latest, the Murray was "mistaken" in his original statment to police and he actually gave the propofol at 11:40am not 10:40.... so even more fuel to your fire, Badkolo. Murray watched Michael not sleep for 10hrs before giving his drug of choice.

Also, what about reports that Murray had successfully given small amounts of propofol to induce sleep in the past to Michael... why wait 10hrs then if this system was so successful.

And WHY is this timeline so similar to the one under which PT Barnum died?

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Offline Datroot

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If Murray was awake all night watching Michael not sleeping, he would have been too knackered to do anything.
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Offline liegi

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This is the most improbable story I have ever heard. I can't believe the media and the public are buying it. I think all hell is going to break loose during the trial.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

topsecretgirl

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I've read an interview of one of the dancers and he said MJ went home at 1.30am. Sorry but I really don't remember wich dancer it was, it was a while ago. I remember I found it odd when I read that cause Murray suppose to have given him the sleeping drugs at 1.30.
Of topic but I was thinking since most meds are prescribed to your weight, maybe cause he lost so much weight during the rehearsals he was given too much of it (for his weight), just an idea.
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Offline fannynanny

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Quote from: "lisap27"
ITS ALL MY ARSE!!

he had enough stuff in him to knock out an elephant, yet he's still having stuff administered at gone 10.30am when his meetings started at 2pm as his choreographer and vocal coach said one meeting was at 2pm then one at 4pm

this is niggleing away at me, i'm glad you brought this up!!


LOL! It's all my Arse is right
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

iMJacksonfaN

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It's said he had propofol before.. But.. See all the things he had before he got propofol.. IS it always so much before giving him propofol? :lol:

It's so ridiculous.. Michael would indeed ask for getting killed, because so much drugs is dangerous.. Anyone knows that, and Murray should know that isn't good for a heart x)
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Offline ni-co-le

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Quote from: "fannynanny"
Quote from: "lisap27"
ITS ALL MY ARSE!!

he had enough stuff in him to knock out an elephant, yet he's still having stuff administered at gone 10.30am when his meetings started at 2pm as his choreographer and vocal coach said one meeting was at 2pm then one at 4pm

this is niggleing away at me, i'm glad you brought this up!!


LOL! It's all my Arse is right

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol: yes you are right
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topsecretgirl

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Really alot doesn't make sense!
How could a person not fall asleep with all that stuff! Many years ago I took a one sleeping pill and I was already out in a few minutes! I don't believe he still couldn't sleep after even two different pills an needed propofol to put him under, which even isn't some sleeping aid. Ever had surgery, well when you wake up after do you feel like you had a good night rest?
Something just isn't right in all this but I just can't seem to get my finger on it! :roll:
And why do they all (JJ, Doc Murray,...)keep stating that everything will come out????
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Offline MYLOVELYONE

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yes that is exactly what I think, he had to go to work and he was druged... :roll:  yes sure and if he couldn't sleep I dont think he would be able to work that day I mean he could seem sleeping but couldn't get into rem right so when he would wake up he would be tired and with effects from the "cocktail" how in hell michael was going to be able for dance and sing I dont understand  :roll:
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Offline whatyourheartsays

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This is exactly what sounded strange to me

-a dancer said Michael left at 1:30, and Murray said he gave the first drug at 1:30...Does Michael lived and slept on stage ?  He must have had at least 1h to get back home, going here and there in the house before going to bed, not sleeping and THEN asking for drug. And I totally agree for the fact that it's totally weird to wait 9h to get the good drug that will surely have him sleep, and decide to have it right at the moment he was supposed to be going at work.
And I really feel strange about Murray in this case : he's Michael's Dr. His only goal is surely to have him on his two legs for work. If your are not strong to say no for drugs, you don't wait 9h to give it. I mean, he has been resisting for 9 hours, leaving Michael like that, and knowing he had to get up next day ?
I mean if Michael was not sleeping at 10:40, I guess solution was to give him something not be sleep so that he could manage with the work coming...and try to sleep the next night.
Michael knew he had troubles to sleep, i guess he used to deal with it for weeks. Why be so "unprofessionnal" on that spécial day ?

thearabiannight : if sleeping was as easy as foot rub and warm shower.... :mrgreen:  Sometime you just can't sleep. It's not a question of being tired or feeling confortable. It's just something that totally struggles your will, and you are tired, but you just cannot decide to sleep. you always find something to do, you go from place to place, just avoiding the moment where you will have to try sleeping. You just hope that you'll have strongest will next time...
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Offline CC

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another thing... we saw the rehearsals of june 23rd, what happen with the material of 24th? or they talk about 24 because was the 23rd late at night, already 24th? if this is the case: what are he dping on 24th?
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Offline mirandacnc

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Quote from: "Datroot"
If Murray was awake all night watching Michael not sleeping, he would have been too knackered to do anything.


EXACTLY!!! WHEN THE F**K DID MURRAY SLEEP?? AND HE WENT TO THE HOSPITAL TOO..SO HE DIDNT SLEEP ALL DAY EITHER..WOW LIKE ON THE SHOW 24..HE DOESNT NEED SLEEP I GUESS HEEHEE :lol:  :lol:
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Offline SoundOfCrescendo

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I agree. This has all seemed strange from the beginning, from the amount of drugs used to the time they were administered, everything you said. Especially since they had said he didn't get home from rehearsals till around 2:30AM, and it seems kind of impossible to ask for drugs at your home when you haven't even gotten there yet!  ;)  :lol:
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Offline Raven

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Quote from: "topsecretgirl"
Really alot doesn't make sense!
How could a person not fall asleep with all that stuff! Many years ago I took a one sleeping pill and I was already out in a few minutes! I don't believe he still couldn't sleep after even two different pills an needed propofol to put him under, which even isn't some sleeping aid. Ever had surgery, well when you wake up after do you feel like you had a good night rest?
Something just isn't right in all this but I just can't seem to get my finger on it! :roll:
And why do they all (JJ, Doc Murray,...)keep stating that everything will come out????
It is possible from chemicals your body makes itself that at some point these drugs do not work well or not at all. Adrenaline for instance can have that effect.

Another thing, as I mentioned above, fans saw Michael leave Staples Center at 1: 30 am. Another poster above recalls a dancer having written Michael left at 1:30 am as well...
So that would leave a drive to the MJJ residence...according to Google Earth that would be approx. 22 minutes. So that would be 1:52 am that Michael would arrive home.

What do you do when you get home after an evening of dancing and rehearsing? You walk to the kitchen, have a little drink or snack, walk up to check on the kids sleeping (+ 10 minutes=2:02), In the meanwhile, received another concerned fanletter about his health delivered IN HIS BEDROOM around 2:00 am by Michael Amir (+5 min=2:07), have a shower because you have been dancing all night (+ 20 minutes=2:27), undress (+5 minutes=2:32).  It would be at least 2:30 before Michael would have stepped into bed and even attempted to sleep on his own. Concluding he couldn't sleep would have had to be at least an hour later (how long does it take before you decide you can't sleep?).

The time line does not fit. There is no way Michael had called Murray at approximately 1:00 am (as the AR mentions) that he could not sleep, as he was still at the Staples Center.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2010, 06:17:01 AM by Raven »

Offline MashMike

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I absolutely agree with the person here who posted that after not sleeping for a while, it would be a very professional approach just to give him smth not to sleep,to be pert and brisk instead giving him tons of propofol,i mean we know that Michael is a very smart man,he cares about his health a lot, even a child knows that those drugs are very dangerous and can cause a heart attack,he wouldnt have risked his life,im sure, besides i remember while watching "Man in the Mirror"documentar about Mike,Katherine Jackson was talking about how "Dont stop until u get enough" videoclip and song were created, so she said that one night when they all were deeply sleeping,Mike shouted very loudly "Uhhh" in his bed and when Katherine went to hos bedroom he said that after trying to sleep he got a great idea about the song,thats how that song was created and she also added that the best and all the great ideas came to his mind at night sleeping, Michael has said it too,just to make sure u can watch the interview,i think while rehearsing and preparing for the concert he had problems with sleeping cause of the same problem-tons of new ideas appearing in his head
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Offline alovesmichael

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Well the reason for waiting to give Michael the propofol could probably have been the fact that it doesn't "make you sleep" as we all know by now. The fact that it was administered so late might just have been because  Michael thought it'd be better to sleep a few hours than nothing at all.. However that still does not explain the inconsistencies in the timeline... :?
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Offline Chamone

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Quote from: "Raven"
It is possible from chemicals your body makes itself that at some point these drugs do not work well or not at all. Adrenaline for instance can have that effect.

Another thing, as I mentioned above, fans saw Michael leave Staples Center at 1: 30 am. Another poster above recalls a dancer having written Michael left at 1:30 am as well...
So that would leave a drive to the MJJ residence...according to Google Earth that would be approx. 22 minutes. So that would be 1:52 am that Michael would arrive home.

What do you do when you get home after an evening of dancing and rehearsing? You walk to the kitchen, have a little drink or snack, walk up to check on the kids sleeping (+ 10 minutes=2:02), In the meanwhile, received another concerned fanletter about his health delivered IN HIS BEDROOM around 2:00 am by Michael Amir (+5 min=2:07), have a shower because you have been dancing all night (+ 20 minutes=2:27), undress (+5 minutes=2:32).  It would be at least 2:30 before Michael would have stepped into bed and even attempted to sleep on his own. Concluding he couldn't sleep would have had to be at least an hour later (how long does it take before you decide you can't sleep?).

The time line does not fit. There is no way Michael had called Murray at approximately 1:00 am (as the AR mentions) that he could not sleep, as he was still at the Staples Center.
I love LOVE your post! It doesn't add up.

It makes me wonder though, if Marray is in on the hoax, why would he make these statements? Why didn't he just say that he started gving MJ drugs at 2.30 am? Or even later? Why start gving so much drugs, so early?
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Offline ballongiraf

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another thing: it says in the autopsy report that MJ slept for several hours that night. The only people in that bedroom was murray and MJ. The only person, who could've told the officials that would be murray. He contradicted himself in that police questioning. MJ slept for several hours, yet he gave MJ various drugs at various times during that night because MJ couldnt sleep.
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Offline michaelsupporter

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Frankly, it is difficult to know what medications Murray administered to MJ---the autopsy, in my opinion, is fake. At any rate, if propofol and all those benzos (ativan, valium etc) were given---it could kill----even a large horse! It all depends on the manner in which they were administered and the amount given......all together or spread out over the course of hours??????  Propofol will sedate a person (knock 'em out).....the person will sleep.......however, that individual will not properly go through the stages of REM that will provide the quality of sleep one should get.  Also, it will depress respiratory drive and blood pressure as will benzos. If you stack them on top of one another you will kill someone. All the more reason for these individuals to be continuously monitored.  That is what ICU's are for. I think MJ understood medicine well enough to know these dangers and it helped him forge the hoax.  After all, MJ is into drama and how novel it is to stir the pot with a drug that is off limits to a setting outside the controlled hospital setting and is not used for sleep. It certainly has created a lot of hype and gotten lots of attention. This is truly a drama unfolding-a satire in its own rite.  Need we say more?!??!?!?!?!??!

Just for kicks and giggles.......Murray should have tried Ambien. That works wonders for many!!!!! There's a whole host of sleep aids that are far better for sleep. I would have suggested chamomile tea and melatonin first then progressed to the prescription meds like Ambien. Heck, Benadryl, for some, is enough to knock them out cold and that is an over-the-counter medication!
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Offline Raven

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LAPD has probably been well able to reconstruct a timeline and notice any inconsistencies. As I recall correctly - i believe it to be in one of the search warrants- there was a surveillance camera (yep...apparently there WERE some recordings indeed) that registered Murray arriving around 1:00 at the MJJ residence. If so, the very same camera will also have registered Michael arriving home. LAPD can also obtain witness reports about when Michael left Staples Center. Witnesses in the house -for instance the bodyguards-/Michael Amir that delivered the fanletter to Michael can also supply their statements.

It appears Murray has been inconsistent about the timeline, from beginning to start, as he has admitted now this week through his lawyer. But why...big question. Even more, why would he be inconsistent about the beginning of the timeline?
« Last Edit: February 27, 2010, 10:15:27 AM by Raven »

Offline Raven

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Quote from: "michaelsupporter"
Frankly, it is difficult to know what medications Murray administered to MJ---the autopsy, in my opinion, is fake. At any rate, if propofol and all those benzos (ativan, valium etc) were given---it could kill----even a large horse! It all depends on the manner in which they were administered and the amount given......all together or spread out over the course of hours??????  Propofol will sedate a person (knock 'em out).....the person will sleep.......however, that individual will not properly go through the stages of REM that will provide the quality of sleep one should get.  Also, it will depress respiratory drive and blood pressure as will benzos. If you stack them on top of one another you will kill someone. All the more reason for these individuals to be continuously monitored.  That is what ICU's are for. I think MJ understood medicine well enough to know these dangers and it helped him forge the hoax.  After all, MJ is into drama and how novel it is to stir the pot with a drug that is off limits to a setting outside the controlled hospital setting and is not used for sleep. It certainly has created a lot of hype and gotten lots of attention. This is truly a drama unfolding-a satire in its own rite.  Need we say more?!??!?!?!?!??!

Just for kicks and giggles.......Murray should have tried Ambien. That works wonders for many!!!!! There's a whole host of sleep aids that are far better for sleep. I would have suggested chamomile tea and melatonin first then progressed to the prescription meds like Ambien. Heck, Benadryl, for some, is enough to knock them out cold and that is an over-the-counter medication!
The guy didn't even know how to do proper CPR as a cardiologist...speaks for itself I think
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline CC

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Quote from: "Raven"
LAPD has probably been well able to reconstruct a timeline and notice any inconsistencies. As I recall correctly - i believe it to be in one of the search warrants- there was a surveillance camera (yep...apparently there WERE some recordings indeed) that registered Murray arriving around 1:00 at the MJJ residence. If so, the very same camera will also have registered Michael arriving home. LAPD can also obtain witness reports about when Michael left Staples Center. Witnesses in the house -for instance the bodyguards-/Michael Amir that delivered the fanletter to Michael can also supply their statements.

It appears Murray has been inconsistent about the timeline, from beginning to start, as he has admitted now this week through his lawyer. But why...big question. Even more, why would he be inconsistent about the beginning of the timeline?

I´m starting to believe that someone else really died that day in that house, really...
CM was at MJ house with someone else that night, maybe some impersonator who was ill or a friend of him, who knows?
I feel that MJ is alive and we know several things that make us believe in this, so someone died that day and someone recognised the body and that´s all.
then, when all this come to light this person who recognised MJ could easly say:
"I thought that was him! he really looks like Him! I was in shock and I really thought that his face was damaged for the ressusitation thing, but looks like him!" and then... BAM! so... the people will start to questioning: "Where IS Michael Jackson ?" ;)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline badkolo

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**** UPDATE****

http://www.youtube.com/user/pedleylife1

watch at 8:10. he says the michael left us at 12:30

so now back to the time line, they ended at 12:30 and prepared to leave, he got home at lets say 1:am

so he arrived home at 1am or so and then immediately went to get drugged tog o to sleep????


im not buying this at all. now that the timeline is closer to 1am this surely is odd

now im going to find the other videos where they say michael left after 1am, if i find that then we have a hoax, because there is no way he left at 3 different times.

if the times he left change then its a hoax because everyone has a different story on an issue that should only have one timeline.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline reading_on

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I try not to speculate. I like to think about facts (that's my blessing and curse) so I won't try to say that Michael did this or that when he got home. There is so supporting documents or reported evidence to provide conflicting theories on that part and therefore would be more circumstantial.

 However, this is one glaring fact (as reported) that has been totally ignored. The first drug administered was Valium but then only 30 minutes went by and Dr Murray administered another drug. I don't know of any doctor that would expect a person to sleep within 30 minutes of taking this drug. Especially a person with reported high tolerance.  Would you expect to sleep within 30 minutes of taking a Valium? I have zero tolerance and it would least take 45 minutes for me to start feeling a direct sleepy feeling much less ingesting another drug.

 Another fact that needs to be cleared up though. I see folks going back and forth about how much a person can take and stay awake. Someone that develops a high tolerance to medication can take a lot and not fall asleep. I know people here locally that are into the drug scene and they take literally handfuls of pills and stay up to enjoy the buzz (not insinuating Michael was buzzing, his was for other purposes). For instance a lady I know takes 10 Zanax at a time every night. Occasionally she takes more. I also had someone OD in my family with loads of different antidepressants and the doctor at the hospital told me the one drug in her system that they were afraid of was the fact that she also took too much Tylenol, but they saw people everyday with a lot more of the other stuff than she had in her. She had taken 16 pills.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is just putting on its shoes.

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the arabian nights

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« Last Edit: February 27, 2010, 05:21:57 PM by the arabian nights »

Offline badkolo

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Quote from: "the arabian nights"
Quote from: "badkolo"
**** UPDATE****

http://www.youtube.com/user/pedleylife1

watch at 8:10. he says the michael left us at 12:30

so now back to the time line, they ended at 12:30 and prepared to leave, he got home at lets say 1:am

so he arrived home at 1am or so and then immediately went to get drugged tog o to sleep????


im not buying this at all. now that the timeline is closer to 1am this surely is odd

now im going to find the other videos where they say michael left after 1am, if i find that then we have a hoax, because there is no way he left at 3 different times.

if the times he left change then its a hoax because everyone has a different story on an issue that should only have one timeline.


mj left them at 12.30 just after midnight and went home,  i understood that he phoned cm to come to his home to drug him up


Thats just one persons timeline, there are other reports to contradict this 12:30 statement, it has been said by many he left much later, closer to 1:00 or 1:30

there have been reports michael arrived home at 1:30 and reports he arrived home at 2:00am

but lets say he left at 12:30 and arrived home at 1:00, that still doesnt help because he said he gave him volume at 1:30am because michael complained he couldnt sleep .

WELL HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE, IF HE LEFT STAPLES AT 12:30 AND THEY GOT HOME AT LETS SAY 1:00, THEN, DID HE NOT PISS,TAKE HIS CLOTHES OFF,SAY HI TO ANYONE, EVEN IF HE SKIPPED THAT DID HE IMMEDITALY FLY TO BED AND THEN COMPLAIN HE COULDNT SLEEP.

IT DOESNT FIT.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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the arabian nights

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« Last Edit: February 27, 2010, 05:24:56 PM by the arabian nights »

*Mo*

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Quote from: "badkolo"
**** UPDATE****

http://www.youtube.com/user/pedleylife1

watch at 8:10. he says the michael left us at 12:30

Randy Philips says: "And something happened between 12.30 when he left us and the morning when I had to rush to the hospital when I got the first call".

Ehhhh...which MORNING mr. Philips..?  As far as we know the 911 call was made at 12.21, so it the afternoon.  

1) Which day is mr. Philips talking about, is he talking about the 25th? (the morning)
2) In case he is talking about the 25th, then what was he doing in the hospital while the 911 call still had to be made?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Raven

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Quote from: "badkolo"
**** UPDATE****

http://www.youtube.com/user/pedleylife1

watch at 8:10. he says the michael left us at 12:30

so now back to the time line, they ended at 12:30 and prepared to leave, he got home at lets say 1:am

so he arrived home at 1am or so and then immediately went to get drugged tog o to sleep????


im not buying this at all. now that the timeline is closer to 1am this surely is odd

now im going to find the other videos where they say michael left after 1am, if i find that then we have a hoax, because there is no way he left at 3 different times.

if the times he left change then its a hoax because everyone has a different story on an issue that should only have one timeline.
OK...We have Randy Philips saying he left 0:30 am...we have written testimony from fans who saw him leave at 1:30 am (http://www.this-is-not-it.com/en/testimonies.html Samantha's testimony)...
There's already 1 hour difference.

If this was an accident and Murray messed up in the morning around 11:00, why would there be inconsistencies at the beginning of the timeline around midnight?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Raven

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@ arabian nights: so ian halperin does not mention Michael had even been in the Staples Center...he describes him being at home in his room
« Last Edit: February 27, 2010, 12:58:12 PM by Raven »

Offline CC

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@arabiannights
In TII we saw the rehearsals of june 23rd, what happen with the material of 24th? or they talk about 24 because was the 23rd late at night, already 24th? if this is the case: what was he doing on 24th? what happen with all that day? what happen on 24th???
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Raven

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Quote from: "the arabian nights"
Quote from: "Raven"
@arabian nights, can you please focus on topic instead of flooding the thread?

rude  rude rude you do your own research then
I'm not being rude, i'm asking you to focus. If you paste so much text at once, it overshadows the discussion
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Chamone

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I don't trust that Ian Halperin.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Chamone

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People! Please! L.O.V.E!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Grace

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Quote from: "the arabian nights"
i didnt realise that cm actually left the house

http://musicmp3.ru/news_michael-jackson ... death.html


Did you notice this sentence?:
"Originally Murray claimed that he gave Jackson a medicine at 10.50am, left the house for a couple of minutes and than found Michael Jackson unconscious. He tried to revive singer and then called emergency services at 12.21pm.

Murray decided to change his statement after his voicemail message was submitted to the Los Angeles court. This call was made by Murray on the day of the singer’s death – it shows Murray giving instructions to another patient. According to the prosecution, the call was made in 11.54am, when Michael Jackson was already unconscious or even dead. It means that in fact Murray was not aware of Jackson’s statement.

Michael Jackson has died from a heart attack on June 25 at the age of 50. Soon after Dr Murray admitted that he has given Jackson a powerful drug two hours before his death."


Jackson's statement ????
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Raven

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Quote from: "Grace"
Did you notice this sentence?:
"Originally Murray claimed that he gave Jackson a medicine at 10.50am, left the house for a couple of minutes and than found Michael Jackson unconscious. He tried to revive singer and then called emergency services at 12.21pm.

Murray decided to change his statement after his voicemail message was submitted to the Los Angeles court. This call was made by Murray on the day of the singer’s death – it shows Murray giving instructions to another patient. According to the prosecution, the call was made in 11.54am, when Michael Jackson was already unconscious or even dead. It means that in fact Murray was not aware of Jackson’s statement.

Michael Jackson has died from a heart attack on June 25 at the age of 50. Soon after Dr Murray admitted that he has given Jackson a powerful drug two hours before his death."


Jackson's statement ????
The writer probably means "state", not "statement"
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline missyoumuch

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anymore arguements and im locking this topic
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
[size=200][/size]SMILE THOUGH YOUR HEART IS ACHING

Offline whatyourheartsays

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I don't trust this Ian halperin either. He alwyas has "all details" but never says where it comes from. Could be true, or could be garbage. I think it's more garbage then truth.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline DancingTheDream

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@Jacksonologist...   ive just got the chills because MY simplest explanation would be that MJ was asleep when Murray injected the propofol...    :cry:

I dont believe, and never believe, that MJ used Propofol to sleep.  Ridiculous idea.  I dont believe he asked for it at 10:40am either.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline bec

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Quote from: "DancingTheDream"
I dont believe, and never believe, that MJ used Propofol to sleep.  Ridiculous idea.  I dont believe he asked for it at 10:40am either.

Well, yeah, it really does just boil down to this, doesn't it? The propofol thing is a complete media hoax. Hyperbaric chamber of 2009.

Hyperbaric chamber which is also known as oxygen chamber therapy by the way. O2 the chemical symbol for oxygen. O2 arena for This Is It concert series. Oxygen canisters at the house, leached upon by the press as "proof" of Propofol useage by Michael, completely ignoring the perfectly legitimate use of oxygen therapy for vocalists to improve or tone one's singing voice.

Yeah, it's a neat little package isn't it?

Pepsi accident------->severe scalp burns------>hyperbaric (oxygen) chamber therapy------->original media punk performed by Michael Jackson--------->demerol addiction---------->propofol----------->necessitates oxygen on hand during use------------->O2 arena TII-------------->media hoax.

It's entirely too coincidental to me.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Are you entertained?

Offline kdkennedy74

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I'm even more confused now with this discussion of the timeline. This all makes sense as to another way that none of this adds up. Putting the timeline with the new found interview of Oxman stating that the ambulance photo is not real and is photoshopped strengthens my convictions that Michael is alive. They have debunked the one and ONLY photo that we were shown of "Michael's" final moments and we have had no information from anyone stating anything that proves that he even actually went to UCLA. The stories are changing faster than we can blink. Since that dreadful day in June noone has been able to keep a story straight. The Jackson's can't remember where they were and how they found out about their brother's death, CM's timeline does not coincide with witness accounts of when Michael left Staples Center, and we are still being told countless stories of what did and did not happen that day.  The only thing that I can gather from all of the inconsistencies is that MJ has to still be alive because that is the only thing that makes sense.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »


I close my eyes just to try and see you smile one more time
Its been so long now all I do is cry
Cant we find some love to take this away
Cause the pain gets stronger every day
Cant you see I dont wanna walk away

Offline Grace

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Quote from: "bec"
Quote from: "DancingTheDream"
I dont believe, and never believe, that MJ used Propofol to sleep.  Ridiculous idea.  I dont believe he asked for it at 10:40am either.

Well, yeah, it really does just boil down to this, doesn't it? The propofol thing is a complete media hoax. Hyperbaric chamber of 2009.

Hyperbaric chamber which is also known as oxygen chamber therapy by the way. O2 the chemical symbol for oxygen. O2 arena for This Is It concert series. Oxygen canisters at the house, leached upon by the press as "proof" of Propofol useage by Michael, completely ignoring the perfectly legitimate use of oxygen therapy for vocalists to improve or tone one's singing voice.

Yeah, it's a neat little package isn't it?

Pepsi accident------->severe scalp burns------>hyperbaric (oxygen) chamber therapy------->original media punk performed by Michael Jackson--------->demerol addiction---------->propofol----------->necessitates oxygen on hand during use------------->O2 arena TII-------------->media hoax.

It's entirely too coincidental to me.

bec, I am with you. The timeline of 6/25 is just one little piece in the main and complete timeline of this project.

I feel there is not so much a need to try to explain the different timelines of 6/25 as they all were published to and by media. They are PR to set the desired directions for public discussions.
The fact that several timelines appeared in media AS SUCH indicates to me that this was done on purpose. I would like to look at what role the timelines are playing.

All of June 25 "events" were provided to media BEFORE media or public were asking questions.
The "passing away" was published before any official statement (and before the inofficial statement of Jermaine) - off topic: "passing" has so many meanings btw - we are witnessing very fabulous word games since months... passing also means overtaking, outpacing (which is so true...  :lol: we got exhausted many times, didn't we?) - just a little twist and "general" perception of a world is different...
The ambulance photo was leaked as proof of the general understanding of "passing". Nicely shaved after a whole night without any sleep, but stop, coroner's report said the person had slept - how come ;-) ?
The ambulance leaving the mansion video was published then as proof of the ambulance photo. Of course followed by a second video showing "public witnesses" in a tourist "visit the celeb's" tour bus.
The interview with Ben Evenstad and the "proof" photo of "we did the ambulance photo". Since when do we need a proof photo of a photo?
In parallel we witnessed the many heli videos, transports from and to various locations and then the final transport to the coroner's building to prove the body was dead and it was all over. Proof of the passing was then given by live reportage on screaming crying fans.
And we were all glued to the screens, weren't we?
Then we learned from media interviews with all kind of "close sources" soon popping out of nowhereland that there were drugs, shady doctors and shady pharmacies, that Michael was a drug addict, did not eat, did not drink but peed in public, was not healthy, could not perform, could not sleep, could "not live" as you and me (which was the only thing they were right about but did not notice it anyway) and that Michael literally had been a "living dead" since quite a while already and everything that happened just happened because a drug addict celebrity usually dies in Beverly Hills - just another case for grieving fans and grave hunters now.
Case closed for media.

The answers were there BEFORE the questions were asked.
Which means "explanations" and "proofs" were given BEFORE ANY investigation took place.
They were given to media because media were the ones asking then their questions "on behalf" of the spectators. Media were giving their usual resumees, judgements, cases of "oh we are so concerned about it, how sad" and a damn they would give. Just business as usual.

"There is no perfect crime" - the originator always will leave traces.
The above tide of events gives the following 3 (actually combined) storybook patterns to me.
1) "murder" - and the "murderers" want to direct public opinion on a certain path (drug addict celebrity and a bad doctor). However, we found that there is a bond between the "murderer" and Michael (not only by the "thank you for your support" video) and it is set up as a storybook where the "so said and later in real life publicly called murderer" plays several roles. So the "murder" did NOT take place at the given moment and location but there are reasons why the story should appear this way.

2) "as if-show" - and the "illusionists" want to direct public attention on a certain path to withdraw from the essential trick (MJ publicly dying in the ambulance or shortly after at UCLA but remember there was a second garage exit at the mansion into Monovale Drive). Illusionists drive attention on a side event whereas the main trick is being executed in fog or dark or speed or all together. Many times we were told in the web that everything happened right in front our eyes yet we would not grasp it.

3) "Art is resistance" (MJ AIR balloon), performance art, second life, web 2.0, social interaction patterns evolving, art spreading as everything else from artist to masses, everybody participating in a worldwide web of art (MJ the spiderman), artificial life thus controllable life so whatever our recent and current and future life are about when it comes to intellectual, spiritual and emotional existance besides food, drinks, sleep and life activity.

All of the above in combination with the many appearances of MJ after 6/25 in various forms boils it down to three conclusions, today after all we learned so far:

- Michael did want to disappear from the public eye with a little help of his friends (he had reasons enough) and it is him having directed his leaving from the final curtain call (which is the last scene for accepting final applause before leaving stage and the performance is over)
- Michael did not want to hurt his fans (therefore the many appearances and clues that he's fine)
- Michael did want to express himself and his beliefs and concerns in a complete different way than dancing, singing and grabbing his gold pants in order to reach the mass public.

There are many side-effects to the tide of events - some desired ones, some involuntary ones.
The desired ones I would list as:
digging into his life with good intentions
finding the truth about his trials
cleaning his reputation
understanding his messages
asking questions and stopping swallowing unquestioned what others want us to think
learning ourselves about life and essentials in life
learning about his emotional and artistic intelligence and mastership
learning from his role model
implementing the important aspects in our personal lives
healing ourselves from within
spreading L.O.V.E. only
and where we fail as human beings: apologize and forgive.

And let him be and live to HIS desires and not to ours.
He misses us as much as we do miss him. NO question.
Who loves, misses the loved ones.
We all know this.

The overall timeline IMO was given to us in Murray's airport hearing.

And isn't it phantastic that Michael has turned green?
(I would not want to know how many ladies want to be the one kissing him back from green to prince to become King of Entertainment... :P )
Green is hope and green is future.  :D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Create your day. Create the most astounding year of your life. Be the change you want to see in the world! L.O.V.E.
***********************************************************************************************
"I am tired, I am really tired of manipulation." Michael Jackson, Harlem, New York, NY, July 6, 2002
***********************************************************************************************
******* Let's tear the walls in the brains of this world down.*******

Time to BE.

Offline CC

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@grace
Hi! your posts are always great and clear!
i´m with you!
big thank you for your words... ;)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline badkolo

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OK its update time.

watch the video at 3:00 and she clearly says they saw michael at 1:30, well how did murray give him valium at 1:30
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5zCEYQ3 ... e=youtu.be
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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the arabian nights

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Quote from: "kdkennedy74"
I'm even more confused now with this discussion of the timeline. This all makes sense as to another way that none of this adds up. Putting the timeline with the new found interview of Oxman stating that the ambulance photo is not real and is photoshopped strengthens my convictions that Michael is alive. They have debunked the one and ONLY photo that we were shown of "Michael's" final moments and we have had no information from anyone stating anything that proves that he even actually went to UCLA. The stories are changing faster than we can blink. Since that dreadful day in June noone has been able to keep a story straight. The Jackson's can't remember where they were and how they found out about their brother's death, CM's timeline does not coincide with witness accounts of when Michael left Staples Center, and we are still being told countless stories of what did and did not happen that day.  The only thing that I can gather from all of the inconsistencies is that MJ has to still be alive because that is the only thing that makes sense.

i like your thinking, you  have put this well, and now jermaine saying that he was not with us when we went to the airport
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

the arabian nights

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yeap she says 1.30 - this cannot mean lunch time because - the Alzono said mike arrived at 6.30pm others say 10/10.30pm so it must be 1.30am night time - that would fit with Alzono

but would fans wait that length of time? i suppose especially if that was his regularly leaving time.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

the arabian nights

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from what she said it would seem that he wanted something recorded about his feelings

but i was of the understanding that he wanted to do 10 shows more than prince and had renegotiated his contract to add in films, he liked the whole guinness thing - that was going to be done

its all hearsay

but why would he call these pp in to make these comments - thats the interesting point - for a record
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

word

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This one is simple,its called murder.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

 

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