@@@ TimeLine Issue @@@ Explain this, Anyone, Anyone??

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Offline mirandacnc

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Quote from: "Datroot"
If Murray was awake all night watching Michael not sleeping, he would have been too knackered to do anything.


EXACTLY!!! WHEN THE F**K DID MURRAY SLEEP?? AND HE WENT TO THE HOSPITAL TOO..SO HE DIDNT SLEEP ALL DAY EITHER..WOW LIKE ON THE SHOW 24..HE DOESNT NEED SLEEP I GUESS HEEHEE :lol:  :lol:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline SoundOfCrescendo

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I agree. This has all seemed strange from the beginning, from the amount of drugs used to the time they were administered, everything you said. Especially since they had said he didn't get home from rehearsals till around 2:30AM, and it seems kind of impossible to ask for drugs at your home when you haven't even gotten there yet!  ;)  :lol:
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
[size=150]We didn\'t lose Michael, we just can\'t find him.[/size]



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the arabian nights

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« Last Edit: February 27, 2010, 05:24:11 PM by the arabian nights »

Offline Raven

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Quote from: "topsecretgirl"
Really alot doesn't make sense!
How could a person not fall asleep with all that stuff! Many years ago I took a one sleeping pill and I was already out in a few minutes! I don't believe he still couldn't sleep after even two different pills an needed propofol to put him under, which even isn't some sleeping aid. Ever had surgery, well when you wake up after do you feel like you had a good night rest?
Something just isn't right in all this but I just can't seem to get my finger on it! :roll:
And why do they all (JJ, Doc Murray,...)keep stating that everything will come out????
It is possible from chemicals your body makes itself that at some point these drugs do not work well or not at all. Adrenaline for instance can have that effect.

Another thing, as I mentioned above, fans saw Michael leave Staples Center at 1: 30 am. Another poster above recalls a dancer having written Michael left at 1:30 am as well...
So that would leave a drive to the MJJ residence...according to Google Earth that would be approx. 22 minutes. So that would be 1:52 am that Michael would arrive home.

What do you do when you get home after an evening of dancing and rehearsing? You walk to the kitchen, have a little drink or snack, walk up to check on the kids sleeping (+ 10 minutes=2:02), In the meanwhile, received another concerned fanletter about his health delivered IN HIS BEDROOM around 2:00 am by Michael Amir (+5 min=2:07), have a shower because you have been dancing all night (+ 20 minutes=2:27), undress (+5 minutes=2:32).  It would be at least 2:30 before Michael would have stepped into bed and even attempted to sleep on his own. Concluding he couldn't sleep would have had to be at least an hour later (how long does it take before you decide you can't sleep?).

The time line does not fit. There is no way Michael had called Murray at approximately 1:00 am (as the AR mentions) that he could not sleep, as he was still at the Staples Center.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2010, 06:17:01 AM by Raven »

Offline MashMike

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I absolutely agree with the person here who posted that after not sleeping for a while, it would be a very professional approach just to give him smth not to sleep,to be pert and brisk instead giving him tons of propofol,i mean we know that Michael is a very smart man,he cares about his health a lot, even a child knows that those drugs are very dangerous and can cause a heart attack,he wouldnt have risked his life,im sure, besides i remember while watching "Man in the Mirror"documentar about Mike,Katherine Jackson was talking about how "Dont stop until u get enough" videoclip and song were created, so she said that one night when they all were deeply sleeping,Mike shouted very loudly "Uhhh" in his bed and when Katherine went to hos bedroom he said that after trying to sleep he got a great idea about the song,thats how that song was created and she also added that the best and all the great ideas came to his mind at night sleeping, Michael has said it too,just to make sure u can watch the interview,i think while rehearsing and preparing for the concert he had problems with sleeping cause of the same problem-tons of new ideas appearing in his head
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline alovesmichael

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Well the reason for waiting to give Michael the propofol could probably have been the fact that it doesn't "make you sleep" as we all know by now. The fact that it was administered so late might just have been because  Michael thought it'd be better to sleep a few hours than nothing at all.. However that still does not explain the inconsistencies in the timeline... :?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Chamone

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Quote from: "Raven"
It is possible from chemicals your body makes itself that at some point these drugs do not work well or not at all. Adrenaline for instance can have that effect.

Another thing, as I mentioned above, fans saw Michael leave Staples Center at 1: 30 am. Another poster above recalls a dancer having written Michael left at 1:30 am as well...
So that would leave a drive to the MJJ residence...according to Google Earth that would be approx. 22 minutes. So that would be 1:52 am that Michael would arrive home.

What do you do when you get home after an evening of dancing and rehearsing? You walk to the kitchen, have a little drink or snack, walk up to check on the kids sleeping (+ 10 minutes=2:02), In the meanwhile, received another concerned fanletter about his health delivered IN HIS BEDROOM around 2:00 am by Michael Amir (+5 min=2:07), have a shower because you have been dancing all night (+ 20 minutes=2:27), undress (+5 minutes=2:32).  It would be at least 2:30 before Michael would have stepped into bed and even attempted to sleep on his own. Concluding he couldn't sleep would have had to be at least an hour later (how long does it take before you decide you can't sleep?).

The time line does not fit. There is no way Michael had called Murray at approximately 1:00 am (as the AR mentions) that he could not sleep, as he was still at the Staples Center.
I love LOVE your post! It doesn't add up.

It makes me wonder though, if Marray is in on the hoax, why would he make these statements? Why didn't he just say that he started gving MJ drugs at 2.30 am? Or even later? Why start gving so much drugs, so early?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline ballongiraf

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another thing: it says in the autopsy report that MJ slept for several hours that night. The only people in that bedroom was murray and MJ. The only person, who could've told the officials that would be murray. He contradicted himself in that police questioning. MJ slept for several hours, yet he gave MJ various drugs at various times during that night because MJ couldnt sleep.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline michaelsupporter

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Frankly, it is difficult to know what medications Murray administered to MJ---the autopsy, in my opinion, is fake. At any rate, if propofol and all those benzos (ativan, valium etc) were given---it could kill----even a large horse! It all depends on the manner in which they were administered and the amount given......all together or spread out over the course of hours??????  Propofol will sedate a person (knock 'em out).....the person will sleep.......however, that individual will not properly go through the stages of REM that will provide the quality of sleep one should get.  Also, it will depress respiratory drive and blood pressure as will benzos. If you stack them on top of one another you will kill someone. All the more reason for these individuals to be continuously monitored.  That is what ICU's are for. I think MJ understood medicine well enough to know these dangers and it helped him forge the hoax.  After all, MJ is into drama and how novel it is to stir the pot with a drug that is off limits to a setting outside the controlled hospital setting and is not used for sleep. It certainly has created a lot of hype and gotten lots of attention. This is truly a drama unfolding-a satire in its own rite.  Need we say more?!??!?!?!?!??!

Just for kicks and giggles.......Murray should have tried Ambien. That works wonders for many!!!!! There's a whole host of sleep aids that are far better for sleep. I would have suggested chamomile tea and melatonin first then progressed to the prescription meds like Ambien. Heck, Benadryl, for some, is enough to knock them out cold and that is an over-the-counter medication!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline Raven

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LAPD has probably been well able to reconstruct a timeline and notice any inconsistencies. As I recall correctly - i believe it to be in one of the search warrants- there was a surveillance camera (yep...apparently there WERE some recordings indeed) that registered Murray arriving around 1:00 at the MJJ residence. If so, the very same camera will also have registered Michael arriving home. LAPD can also obtain witness reports about when Michael left Staples Center. Witnesses in the house -for instance the bodyguards-/Michael Amir that delivered the fanletter to Michael can also supply their statements.

It appears Murray has been inconsistent about the timeline, from beginning to start, as he has admitted now this week through his lawyer. But why...big question. Even more, why would he be inconsistent about the beginning of the timeline?
« Last Edit: February 27, 2010, 10:15:27 AM by Raven »

Offline Raven

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Quote from: "michaelsupporter"
Frankly, it is difficult to know what medications Murray administered to MJ---the autopsy, in my opinion, is fake. At any rate, if propofol and all those benzos (ativan, valium etc) were given---it could kill----even a large horse! It all depends on the manner in which they were administered and the amount given......all together or spread out over the course of hours??????  Propofol will sedate a person (knock 'em out).....the person will sleep.......however, that individual will not properly go through the stages of REM that will provide the quality of sleep one should get.  Also, it will depress respiratory drive and blood pressure as will benzos. If you stack them on top of one another you will kill someone. All the more reason for these individuals to be continuously monitored.  That is what ICU's are for. I think MJ understood medicine well enough to know these dangers and it helped him forge the hoax.  After all, MJ is into drama and how novel it is to stir the pot with a drug that is off limits to a setting outside the controlled hospital setting and is not used for sleep. It certainly has created a lot of hype and gotten lots of attention. This is truly a drama unfolding-a satire in its own rite.  Need we say more?!??!?!?!?!??!

Just for kicks and giggles.......Murray should have tried Ambien. That works wonders for many!!!!! There's a whole host of sleep aids that are far better for sleep. I would have suggested chamomile tea and melatonin first then progressed to the prescription meds like Ambien. Heck, Benadryl, for some, is enough to knock them out cold and that is an over-the-counter medication!
The guy didn't even know how to do proper CPR as a cardiologist...speaks for itself I think
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline CC

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Quote from: "Raven"
LAPD has probably been well able to reconstruct a timeline and notice any inconsistencies. As I recall correctly - i believe it to be in one of the search warrants- there was a surveillance camera (yep...apparently there WERE some recordings indeed) that registered Murray arriving around 1:00 at the MJJ residence. If so, the very same camera will also have registered Michael arriving home. LAPD can also obtain witness reports about when Michael left Staples Center. Witnesses in the house -for instance the bodyguards-/Michael Amir that delivered the fanletter to Michael can also supply their statements.

It appears Murray has been inconsistent about the timeline, from beginning to start, as he has admitted now this week through his lawyer. But why...big question. Even more, why would he be inconsistent about the beginning of the timeline?

I´m starting to believe that someone else really died that day in that house, really...
CM was at MJ house with someone else that night, maybe some impersonator who was ill or a friend of him, who knows?
I feel that MJ is alive and we know several things that make us believe in this, so someone died that day and someone recognised the body and that´s all.
then, when all this come to light this person who recognised MJ could easly say:
"I thought that was him! he really looks like Him! I was in shock and I really thought that his face was damaged for the ressusitation thing, but looks like him!" and then... BAM! so... the people will start to questioning: "Where IS Michael Jackson ?" ;)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline badkolo

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**** UPDATE****

http://www.youtube.com/user/pedleylife1

watch at 8:10. he says the michael left us at 12:30

so now back to the time line, they ended at 12:30 and prepared to leave, he got home at lets say 1:am

so he arrived home at 1am or so and then immediately went to get drugged tog o to sleep????


im not buying this at all. now that the timeline is closer to 1am this surely is odd

now im going to find the other videos where they say michael left after 1am, if i find that then we have a hoax, because there is no way he left at 3 different times.

if the times he left change then its a hoax because everyone has a different story on an issue that should only have one timeline.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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Offline reading_on

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I try not to speculate. I like to think about facts (that's my blessing and curse) so I won't try to say that Michael did this or that when he got home. There is so supporting documents or reported evidence to provide conflicting theories on that part and therefore would be more circumstantial.

 However, this is one glaring fact (as reported) that has been totally ignored. The first drug administered was Valium but then only 30 minutes went by and Dr Murray administered another drug. I don't know of any doctor that would expect a person to sleep within 30 minutes of taking this drug. Especially a person with reported high tolerance.  Would you expect to sleep within 30 minutes of taking a Valium? I have zero tolerance and it would least take 45 minutes for me to start feeling a direct sleepy feeling much less ingesting another drug.

 Another fact that needs to be cleared up though. I see folks going back and forth about how much a person can take and stay awake. Someone that develops a high tolerance to medication can take a lot and not fall asleep. I know people here locally that are into the drug scene and they take literally handfuls of pills and stay up to enjoy the buzz (not insinuating Michael was buzzing, his was for other purposes). For instance a lady I know takes 10 Zanax at a time every night. Occasionally she takes more. I also had someone OD in my family with loads of different antidepressants and the doctor at the hospital told me the one drug in her system that they were afraid of was the fact that she also took too much Tylenol, but they saw people everyday with a lot more of the other stuff than she had in her. She had taken 16 pills.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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the arabian nights

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« Last Edit: February 27, 2010, 05:21:57 PM by the arabian nights »

Offline badkolo

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Quote from: "the arabian nights"
Quote from: "badkolo"
**** UPDATE****

http://www.youtube.com/user/pedleylife1

watch at 8:10. he says the michael left us at 12:30

so now back to the time line, they ended at 12:30 and prepared to leave, he got home at lets say 1:am

so he arrived home at 1am or so and then immediately went to get drugged tog o to sleep????


im not buying this at all. now that the timeline is closer to 1am this surely is odd

now im going to find the other videos where they say michael left after 1am, if i find that then we have a hoax, because there is no way he left at 3 different times.

if the times he left change then its a hoax because everyone has a different story on an issue that should only have one timeline.


mj left them at 12.30 just after midnight and went home,  i understood that he phoned cm to come to his home to drug him up


Thats just one persons timeline, there are other reports to contradict this 12:30 statement, it has been said by many he left much later, closer to 1:00 or 1:30

there have been reports michael arrived home at 1:30 and reports he arrived home at 2:00am

but lets say he left at 12:30 and arrived home at 1:00, that still doesnt help because he said he gave him volume at 1:30am because michael complained he couldnt sleep .

WELL HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE, IF HE LEFT STAPLES AT 12:30 AND THEY GOT HOME AT LETS SAY 1:00, THEN, DID HE NOT PISS,TAKE HIS CLOTHES OFF,SAY HI TO ANYONE, EVEN IF HE SKIPPED THAT DID HE IMMEDITALY FLY TO BED AND THEN COMPLAIN HE COULDNT SLEEP.

IT DOESNT FIT.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
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the arabian nights

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« Last Edit: February 27, 2010, 05:24:56 PM by the arabian nights »

*Mo*

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Quote from: "badkolo"
**** UPDATE****

http://www.youtube.com/user/pedleylife1

watch at 8:10. he says the michael left us at 12:30

Randy Philips says: "And something happened between 12.30 when he left us and the morning when I had to rush to the hospital when I got the first call".

Ehhhh...which MORNING mr. Philips..?  As far as we know the 911 call was made at 12.21, so it the afternoon.  

1) Which day is mr. Philips talking about, is he talking about the 25th? (the morning)
2) In case he is talking about the 25th, then what was he doing in the hospital while the 911 call still had to be made?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Raven

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Quote from: "badkolo"
**** UPDATE****

http://www.youtube.com/user/pedleylife1

watch at 8:10. he says the michael left us at 12:30

so now back to the time line, they ended at 12:30 and prepared to leave, he got home at lets say 1:am

so he arrived home at 1am or so and then immediately went to get drugged tog o to sleep????


im not buying this at all. now that the timeline is closer to 1am this surely is odd

now im going to find the other videos where they say michael left after 1am, if i find that then we have a hoax, because there is no way he left at 3 different times.

if the times he left change then its a hoax because everyone has a different story on an issue that should only have one timeline.
OK...We have Randy Philips saying he left 0:30 am...we have written testimony from fans who saw him leave at 1:30 am (http://www.this-is-not-it.com/en/testimonies.html Samantha's testimony)...
There's already 1 hour difference.

If this was an accident and Murray messed up in the morning around 11:00, why would there be inconsistencies at the beginning of the timeline around midnight?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Raven

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@ arabian nights: so ian halperin does not mention Michael had even been in the Staples Center...he describes him being at home in his room
« Last Edit: February 27, 2010, 12:58:12 PM by Raven »

Offline CC

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@arabiannights
In TII we saw the rehearsals of june 23rd, what happen with the material of 24th? or they talk about 24 because was the 23rd late at night, already 24th? if this is the case: what was he doing on 24th? what happen with all that day? what happen on 24th???
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »
Some men see things as they are and say: WHY?
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Offline Raven

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Quote from: "the arabian nights"
Quote from: "Raven"
@arabian nights, can you please focus on topic instead of flooding the thread?

rude  rude rude you do your own research then
I'm not being rude, i'm asking you to focus. If you paste so much text at once, it overshadows the discussion
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by Guest »

Offline Chamone

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I don't trust that Ian Halperin.
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Offline Chamone

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People! Please! L.O.V.E!
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Offline Grace

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Quote from: "the arabian nights"
i didnt realise that cm actually left the house

http://musicmp3.ru/news_michael-jackson ... death.html


Did you notice this sentence?:
"Originally Murray claimed that he gave Jackson a medicine at 10.50am, left the house for a couple of minutes and than found Michael Jackson unconscious. He tried to revive singer and then called emergency services at 12.21pm.

Murray decided to change his statement after his voicemail message was submitted to the Los Angeles court. This call was made by Murray on the day of the singer’s death – it shows Murray giving instructions to another patient. According to the prosecution, the call was made in 11.54am, when Michael Jackson was already unconscious or even dead. It means that in fact Murray was not aware of Jackson’s statement.

Michael Jackson has died from a heart attack on June 25 at the age of 50. Soon after Dr Murray admitted that he has given Jackson a powerful drug two hours before his death."


Jackson's statement ????
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