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Quote from: "itsmagic"
I'm a near-constant lurker, infrequent poster. Infrequent because a.) I'm just not a people person, and b.) I really can't get down with a lot of the prevalent beliefs, in the "hoax community." I feel positive Michael is alive. I've seen some fascinating things, here (and by "here," I mean both the old and new forums, and MJHD) and, occasionally, some genuinely impressive detective work. But most of what I've read/seen, I haven't been able to agree with/be convinced by/see any meaning in. Clues, theories, that sort of thing.

Anyway, point being - this is why I don't really post here. Or at the old "here." Some of you have probably seen more of me, on Twitter, where I post as "tiffofdoom." My Twitter posts have occasionally found their way into speculation over MHA, on the old MJKIT, which is why I tend to reject follow requests and keep to myself, on Twitter, as well.
But I've been hanging around the fringes of the hoax community, in one form or another, since July. Sorry to be such a lurker; I'm kind of a weirdo, like that.


The big question I've seen here, over and over, is why. And I agree with some of you, that no reason has ever seemed *good* enough. He does not seem to have "hidden" himself very well. Too many little nods & winks at the fans (like the end of TII); too many glaring problems with the story the media was fed. If he hoaxed his death, I think it has to be assumed that he did want those who knew him well, and who would look most closely, to have reason to believe he was not dead.

I don't really think Michael was in any more serious danger than he ever was - and IF he was, he would be in more danger, when/if he came back. Not just from his enemies, but from angry, unhinged fanatics who might try to make his hoax come true.

I don't think the DEA theory makes enough sense, either. Maybe they would work with Michael Jackson; he's the most famous man in the world, even if he's often portrayed as ridiculous. But they would also do a better job of making this look real.

One answer made the most sense to me, logically: he did it for the money. While I don't think he was as bad off as the media portrayed, he was obviously not the moneymaker he had been. His legacy had suffered, too, being mostly destroyed, by time of his "death." Michael's a genius. He knew what his death would bring, financially. He also could have bet on what his death would do, for his name. That's the big one, for me. The money that's rolled in, is amazing. But from the beginning, I was sitting back, teary-eyed, thinking "This is going to do the impossible, and restore his name."

But Michael "woudln't" do that, right? I don't agree. I think, if he really needed to, he would. Michael is Love, sure, but he's shown, time and again, that he knows how to be cutthroat. If he REALLY needed the money, he'd do it.

One other answer made the most sense, going by Michael's heart: that he did it, to save the world. But how the #@^% does THAT work? Where's the PROOF he's gonna show everyone? He'd be torn apart, before he could even open his mouth, if he faked his death just to get the world's attention, then deliver some "It's all for L.O.V.E!" message.
If he somehow died to save the world, he'd have to walk into a press conference with something TANGIBLE and IMMEDIATE. And, while I saw the message of "TII," I didn't see anything he could really deliver on.

I did post at MJKIT, right after seeing TII, though. I don't think it got much notice. I asked about the Heal The World Foundation, because it raised my eyebrows that HTWF had seemingly "come alive" again, in the months/year before Michael died, and then he ends TII with what looks like the Heal The World Foundation logo.
He wanted to change the world. His charity was back. And then, when I checked out the website, in the section in which they talk about their founder, they said Michael would return to lead them in the future. A mistake, not corrected after his death, perhaps? But creepy, considering that Michael had given no public sign he was returning to HTWF, even before he died.


Sorry for the long prelude. I'm pathologically verbose, heh. But I also think I may have found the answer to everything. I went back to HTWF, tonight, to see what they were up to, as I was planning on donating, in the next couple weeks.

Has anyone checked out their website, lately? Because I don't think any of this was there, when I last visited:

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ItI don't know how to even summarize all this, here; it's too much. Just go, and click on EVERYTHING.

I was shocked. Amused. Then, as I kept reading, I started crying, and haven't really stopped, since. No worries, though - this is GOOD crying.
I'm sure many of you will catch how much of the initiatives sounds like Michael's own words. They do mention his death, at one point - then turn around and say what they *think* he would want to tell his fans. Later, in other descriptions of various projects, they seem to completely drop the "dead" talk, and mention his planned world tours, giving educational speeches, and heavy, ongoing involvement in this plan to save humanity.

There are annual telethons planned. Movies. Music. TV stations. Radio stations. A FREAKING NEWSPAPER. It's insanely grandiose, it's an impossible dream, it's like listening to Jesus explain how He's gonna take over the world, with hugs.
In other words....it sounds exactly like Michael Jackson. And this plan is gonna require more capital than HTWF has ever pulled in.

Either the folks at Heal The World have lost their damn minds...or Michael DID do it for the money. And the attention. And the redemption of his name.
So he could save the world.


And, as one more little drop of Weirdness, on all this - those of you who have begun following MJAwakening, on Twitter, will doubtlessly recognize how neatly the missions he(?) proposes fit with the new goals of HTWF.



To everyone:
I don't care if you still believe Michael is alive, or not. I don't care what your preferred theory of doubles or Dave-Dave or the NWO is. You can all get behind this, because this was/is Michael's life-long dream.

Support the Heal The World Foundation. Join them. Donate. And spread the word. Take it to other message boards - forums and fan groups that don't believe the hoax. Tell everyone. If you love Michael, take up his dream. Because This really IS It.[/b]

I don't think Michael did all of this for money .. he won't hurt his fans that have loved him so muchh , love him like their family just because the money's reason ..
But I agree for the save the world' theory ..  :)  :)
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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You gave me strenght when I wasn\'t strong ..
You gave me hope when all hope was lost ..
You open my eyes when I couldn\'t see ..
Thank you for everything, Michael ..
ILYSM !

Well, don't hit me, but I think (if the hoax is true), that he did it for #1money, #2HTWF, #3family, #4reputation, etcetc too.

Because, let's not forget that a percentage of all sales for TII were going to charities.. So that solves #1, #2 and #3.. Sure, Michael gets money out of it, but think about who's really going to be getting that money. His kids, and the charities. Two things that matter most to him. Everything he's done has been done FOR THE FUTURE. And the end justifies the means.  ;)

And, #4 reputation: if you ever taken the time to go back in time and read what people wrote about Michael only 1 year ago then you'll know that next to NO ONE was taking him seriously. :( People complain about haters saying bad things about him now, well HELLO??? rewind the clock. What people say now isn't nearly as bad as what they used to say. So, Yes I think he did this for all of the above, and in doing so he also cleared his debts - a perk that comes with it.

As for coming back.. Sometimes I get the feeling that wasn't part of the original plan anyway. But maybe, he wanted to see how we all reacted first, and has come up with an idea since..

So, thank you for posting.  :)  

Ok, next.. I see some are suspicious of the HTWF site. I'm not sure I believe it's legit either. So let's have a look then...

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I checked out google cache and got to see what some pages looked like a week ago. They've been changing stuff. I saw how they talk about Michael as deceased one second, then not in the next sentence.  :?  With the amount of editing they are doing over there at the moment I'd have thought that's something they wouldn't have overlooked. So it must be left there intentionally. And where are all their different photos coming from?!  :?:   If y'all haven't looked yet, but are sitting here replying 'how you think this' and 'how you think that' then you should really go do what itsmagic suggested to do first and go click-crazy over on HTWF - not to be fooled by them if it is fake, but just to be aware of the situation. Suss it out.  ;)

I also checked out their twitter page. It started June 30th this year.  :?  coincidence? of course not.
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and, whois
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Created: 2005-07-19
Expires: 2010-07-18
There's a record for 11th May 2003 though..  :?:  :?:
"Whois History: 36 records have been archived since 2003-05-11 . "
I had to be sure that was 11th May. and not 5th November.
I'd actually like to know if there's been some completely unrelated name changes.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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"They're coming to a rock and roll concert and watching television. That says it all." - Larry Mullen jr on the ZooTV experience.

Thanks for the post.  It's been a few months since I checked on HTWF.  What a surprise...What an undertaking!  It sounds like a well thoughtout plan to heal the world, but not an easy one.  
Here is something interesting in reference to planned music releases.
"It is funny I don't know too much about the music business or this initiative, but I think Mr. Jackson will know what to do with it." Melissa Johnson

We all talk about Michael not hoaxing his death for trivial reasons, because he wouldn't do that to his fans.  I'm not sure I agree with that.  If healing the world is his mission, and there is a sense of urgency (2012), why not?  It seems to me that there is no better reason than healing the world, and if he gets the much desired and deserved privacy and rest as an added bonus, why wouldn't he do it? He is only human , after all. I remember Kenny Ortega saying something about fans listening to his music and not really hearing his messages.  I also remember him mentioning Michael's army in TII.  
20% of the estate goes to charities.  We don't know which charities, but since Heal the Kids and Heal the World are the ones he mostly talked about, some of the money is probably going toward them, which would give them something to start this iniative.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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You Are My Life
                              mjssoulmate

Quote from: "Jade Jackson"
Quote from: "itsmagic"
Either the folks at Heal The World have lost their damn minds...or Michael DID do it for the money. And the attention. And the redemption of his name.
So he could save the world.

I'm speechless.
so am i and that dont happen often :lol:
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No one of us are entitled to say what Michael would and would not do, we can speculate yes but not claim it as fact. Idk if he would do this for the money perhaps, perhaps not.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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All he wanted was the mountain high
Beyond these boundaries,he wanted to fly
In nature\'s scheme,never to die
– MJ



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I only have a few minutes, here, and I sometimes suck at organizing my thoughts. You have been warned, lol. But here's some of what I know, about HTWF, just going from memory, and with no links, since I'm posting this from the Wii, and can't copy links/open more windows. Go dig for yourself, if you want follow-up on anything.

Heal the World died, and yes, Michael let it die. I for one don't blame him - the world nearly killed him, a couple times, over the last couple decades. His dream barely even got off the ground, before his life became a morass of drug addicition, molestation charges, and "Wacko Jacko." He started a dream, then could not continue both that dream, and the fight to save himself. So, by 2001(?) or so, HTWF was, essentially dead.

The core of HTWF kept going, kept working, but without much impact or publicity, b/c they did not have the funding, or the leadership of Michael. More than once, he wanted to revive his charity, but did not do so, for many reasons - many of Michael's dreams were ended or delayed, by the hell that his life became. And personally, I think it's naive and insulting, to believe that "Michael would never abandon (this or that)." Of course he would. He's human, and he does have a breaking point. You can look back, and see how much his charity work was hurt/reduced, by his ever-growing public image problems.

If you use the Wayback Machine (Google it) to view the CURRENT HTWF site, you will see that they tried to relaunch it, in 2003 or 2004, then it vanishes, again. HTWF, as it is, today, was officially reborn in 2008, when Melissa Johnson (who claims to have been involved from the beginning) began filing the paperwork needed to reform as a charity. According to the IRS paperwork, she funded this with a personal loan, from her own pocket. Their operating budget was less than $2000. I assume the website popped up, sometime in late 2008, as well. In May of 2009, she opened their YouTube channel. Obviously, she and her little group (of about 15, according to the IRS records) were trying to bring HTWF back to life, before Michael's death, so one can assume their efforts were not just a ploy to take advantage of his passing.

Did they have Michael's approval then? Again, one would assume so, but I don't know. He certainly didn't sue her, when she launched a website, YouTube channel, and used his name and face all over her site. And we do know that Michael had supposedly had some kind or "reawakening" of his own, when he realized/decided that "This Is It" could be used to "heal the world."
Coincidence? Maybe, but it seems doubtful, doesn't it?

Melissa Johnson has a long statement/Q&A posted on the HTWF site, in which she grieves for Michael, and expresses fear and confusion over the foundation's future. If we assume that is real, and HTWF thinks of Michael as dead, one would have to wonder: "Why did they leave up all the references to Michael's future work with them? Why the statement that he would return and lead them into the future?"

I don't have answers for this stuff, either. I don't know why the Jacksons would sue HTWF, or even IF we can believe that story. But we've all been looking for that ONE reason which would offer a concrete explanation for WHY Michael would do such a dramatic, risky, hurtful thing. And this, to me, is the best I've seen. Of all the coincidences, the fact that both Michael and his charity seemed to be coming back from obscurity, just before his death, is possibly the most haunting. It gives him not only a reason, but something solid he could offer the public, and the media: "Look, HERE is the plan. HERE is something big enough to justify what I had to do."


Before his "death," Michael Jackson had destroyed his own message. It wasn't his fault, for the most part; he was attacked and villified so much that the image, the "Wacko Jacko" thing had overshadowed any good he could ever do. Imagine, if you will, that he tried to restart his foundation, earlier this year. Would people have listened? Cared? Or just laughed?
How many of YOU were thinking about Michael Jackson, on June 24th? I'm not being critical, here, just trying to make a point. How many of you kind of forgot how much you loved him, until that terrible moment of hearing he was gone?

Michael Jackson, as an image, as a brand, as a spokesperson, had long become a joke. For all his fame and good works, Michael Jackson was no longer in a position to change the world. And I cannot imagine anything he could have ever done, to turn back that tide, and redeem his name - regain his standing, as a leader. Make people stop giggling at him and start HEARING THE MESSAGE, again.

Except die. I often thought that, that the world would never really SEE Michael Jackson for what he was, again, until he was gone. And I really think he knew that, and finally chose to use it.


Like I said, in my first post: The one thing that bothered me, about the theory of "MJ died to save the world," was HOW? How the hell is Michael Jackson gonna pop up and save the world?
This is how, I think. I still don't know his plan, but looking at the plans on the Heal the World site, I started to be able to imagine how it really could happen.


So, like I said: check it out. Spread the word. If you're afraid to donate your money, then donate your time, until you see convincing results. HTWF is an actual charity; some of that paperwork is available, on the site. And I have seen not a shred of evidence that they are "using" Michael's name, in any negative fashion. Matter of fact, if you read through their "initiatives" - all of them - they read as if they were written by Michael, himself (and likely, they were). I personally have no doubt that they are doing Michael's work, so it should not matter if he is here, gone, alive, dead - this is either what he wants, or what he WOULD have wanted.

It is, quite simply, a dream that deserves belief. I would follow it, with or without Michael. I encourage you all to look into doing the same.


Edit: Oh, and for whomever asked - at the end of TII, the image that appeared was essentially the same as the HTWF logo. The "Earth Girl" held/hugged the world, and then tossed it into the air (I think?), at which point "Heal the World" appeared above it, in a curve, like the HTWF logo. It did not say "Foundation," and so was not perfectly identical. But anyone who saw it would instantly think of Michael's old charity, and many people likely looked up HTWF, because of that image. The Jacksons are not stupid. They would realize that this was going to send fans scurrying over to HTWF, and make it appar as if HTWF had Michael's support, so if they were really suing the foundation, why would they EVER have approved that? Why would their LAWYERS have approved that?
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Quote from: "Alem (Thetruth)"
No one of us are entitled to say what Michael would and would not do, we can speculate yes but not claim it as fact. Idk if he would do this for the money perhaps, perhaps not.
Of course. I can't see anyone saying "I KNOW MICHAEL...". I'm pretty sure everyone in this thread so far have only expressed their opinions. "I think Michael..." seems to be in EVERY post.  :)
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"They're coming to a rock and roll concert and watching television. That says it all." - Larry Mullen jr on the ZooTV experience.

I think there are several different Heal the World Foundations. The one associated with MJ stopped in 2004 but the website the originator of this thread gave looks like the old Heal the World site.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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@ itsmagic That's how I see it too. Janet Jackson - "Don't know what you got til it's gone" And I have no idea how he'd come back, but it's going to have to be End of The World related for people to take him seriously. I think..

I forgot about the wayback machine. Wasn't it around 2003 at his 45th birthday celebration that Michael said he was going to make a website to bring all his fans together?
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The website he mentioned is You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login which shows as under construction. Wayback shows a pretty page though.
I think there's some clues in that video. It seems relevant to this year.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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"They're coming to a rock and roll concert and watching television. That says it all." - Larry Mullen jr on the ZooTV experience.

Isn't there a way to look up the lawsuit online?

I believe(d) them, too, but just wondered, why they don't proof their connection to Michael, although they clam to have loads of proof.
A pic of Melissa (the president) with Michael i.e. - would give many doubters a positive feeling.

The Jackson Estate suing them isn't a proof for me, that HTWF is not connected to Michael.
When I read this, I thought, the organisation is simply a place where no money can be made - and they don't like that.
HTWF was actually among the first things I looked up on the internet after June 25th. I totally believed them, just wondered, why the logo and the whole website design was so old fashioned. And then the same style appeared in TII, which didn'T fit into the style of the whole movie! It looked like an advertise to me... And probably it was.

Does the Estate sue them to get them full attention, after the court decides, that they actually ARE connected to Michael?
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________________________________________________________
A revolution without dancing is a revolution not worth having.
________________________________________________________


Quote from: "Melzy777"
@ itsmagic That's how I see it too. Janet Jackson - "Don't know what you got til it's gone" And I have no idea how he'd come back, but it's going to have to be End of The World related for people to take him seriously. I think..

I forgot about the wayback machine. Wasn't it around 2003 at his 45th birthday celebration that Michael said he was going to make a website to bring all his fans together?
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The website he mentioned is You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login which shows as under construction. Wayback shows a pretty page though.
I think there's some clues in that video. It seems relevant to this year.

 Domain Name: MJJSOURCE.COM
      Created on: 10-Feb-04
      Expires on: 10-Feb-10
      Last Updated on: 30-Dec-08

   Administrative Contact:
      Jackson, Steven  (+Taunya Zilkie's email adress / Randy's(?) Ex)
      Tru Def
      502 Washington Blvd.
      Unit 152
      Marina Del Rey, California 90292
      United States
      3108010320      Fax --
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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________________________________________________________
A revolution without dancing is a revolution not worth having.
________________________________________________________


Okay, that's odd. I replied again, to this thread, and it did post, but now it's gone. I'm pretty anal about comments, replies, etc, lol - I'll check and recheck, to make sure things post right. I even clicked on "view your message," or whatnot, and was brought back to this page, to see my comment right there, as it should be.

And now it's nowhere. Weirdness. Does this ever happen to anyone else?


The reply I posted was about the "different" HTWFs. The explanation given (on the website) was that Michael gave Rabbi Shmuley Boteach the responsibility for HTWF, and he let many of the domain names expire, which made HTWF vulnerable to fraud, copycat sites, etc. The few remaining members banded together and rescued as many domain names as they could, paying from their own pockets, so that the HTWF name could be preserved, for the future.

This makes sense, to me, as I recall Rabbi Boteach was accused of stealing money given to Michael's "Heal the Kids" effort (a part of HTWF), and the scandal further tarnished Michael's name, as well - especially since the media seems to have focused more of the blame on Michael, than Shmuley.

This, to me, sounds like an excellent reason why Boteach would have made Michael's "list of enemies." The Rabbi's version, if I recall correctly, was that Michael just "wasn't involved," or "wasn't doing anything" with his charity, then Michael mysteriously stopped speaking to him. The Rabbi's version does not account for what happened to the hundreds of thousands of dollars they raised, together.
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Here's an article on the fall of the Heal the World Foundation. You will note that the former president of HTWF claims Jackson stopped working with HTWF because it overexposed him, and its efforts were "too pedestrian."
And who provided that rather derogatory insight into Michael's motivations for abandoning his charity?
Why, it was our dear Rabbi Boteach, once again. Who seems to have been the one in charge of HTWF, when it all fell apart...just as the current president has claimed.

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Meanwhile, the "old" HTWF address, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login, now redirects to the same site as the newer You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login.
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*

Zen

Well...and I am not trying to be rude...but I would encourage people to proceed with
caution until you are absolutely SURE..if you are planning on supporting any charity.
EVERYone is trying to ca$h in on MJ right now..  :roll:
In every community in which we live, there are people or animals in need that could use our
support.  By giving within our communities, we are also helping to Heal the World.    :)
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This, to me, sounds like an excellent reason why Boteach would have made Michael's "list of enemies."


Yup, I think that may have been the reason.
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You Are My Life
                              mjssoulmate

Quote from: "Zen"
Well...and I am not trying to be rude...but I would encourage people to proceed with
caution until you are absolutely SURE..if you are planning on supporting any charity.
EVERYone is trying to ca$h in on MJ right now..  :roll:

I agree. In general, I'm rather skeptical. But I do believe in this charity, and am intrigued by the fact that they don't seem to be cashing in, on MJ, in any perceivable fashion.

More importantly, though - they accept more than money. They also consider good deeds and volunteer time offered as "donations." In which case there would seem to be no risk, in getting involved, in some non-monetary fashion, while feeling out whether the organization is legit.
Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Guest
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